Deity: OCC Cultural Even Possible?

[Deau]

I started a deity/pangaea/small game tonight with Korea. Had to reroll a few times but I have my city on a riverside hill next to a mountain range. I have 2 wheat, 2 silver, and marble in my direct vicinity. I went through the first time going for marble first, built the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, then the Temple of Artemis, and I started building the Hanging Gardens but the AI beat me to it by like 6 turns. I was able to bribe 3 of the civs to DoW each other, with Russia being the dominant one (took America's capital before turn 50), and a few turns after I lost HG...Russia DoW me. I had nothing so I restarted.

I think I've got about the best start I could have, and I am just going to try and fine tune my start so I can get all three of the early wonders I want, and then go super science/culture the rest of the way. Wish me luck!

Get a riverside-hills-marble start and settle the marble. You will get the 20% wonder bonus (or whatever it was nerfed to last patch) uppon settling thus you won't need to beline masonry and might be able to grab more early wonders. On the other hand though I might be crazy but it feels as though HS+PT are still a must for deity OCC and hitting all of those bottom of the tree techs/wonders feel like will make you miss PT. Guess Archipelago gimmick might let you have em all.

 

[RedRover57]

Is it even possible to get HG on Deity? I haven't been able to pull it off. The AI loves that wonder and usually builds it in the low 50's. Also you sacrifice a lot if you lose it to an AI as you will be way behind in tech without libraries yet. It would be amazing for OCC though if you can pull it off...maybe with Babylon?

 

[qalsip1977]

I'm well into my game and it's gone exceptionally! I built MoH, ToA, HG, HS, ND, PT, among many others. I have been at war with Russia almost the entire game, which was a little scary at first, but I had one Hwacha that was holding her off, then upgraded it to cannon, got 2 more cannons, and continued to defend successfully. I lost 1 cannon but at this point in the game I have 2 Rocket Artillary upgraded from Hwachas and one of them has the double attack promo so I've been very successful at defending. I'm the science leader without a doubt, although Egypy and America both have 3 SS components built a piece (they don't seem to be too aggressive on finishing the SS though), and my culture is solid. The UN was just built, and I control all but 1 of the CS (only because I haven't met him yet), but 2-3 of them were conquered earlier in the game so I can't win a diplomatic without freeing them. America has 2 of them with city defenses 100+ each so I doubt I'll be able to build up a large enough army to defeat them. I'm guessing a cultural win is my best bet. I will attach my current save and my start for you guys to look at.

 

[Ceterius]

Is it even possible to get HG on Deity? I haven't been able to pull it off. The AI loves that wonder and usually builds it in the low 50's. Also you sacrifice a lot if you lose it to an AI as you will be way behind in tech without libraries yet. It would be amazing for OCC though if you can pull it off...maybe with Babylon?

Use GL to bulb Mathematics?

 

[MadDjinn]

Aren't you supposed to wait with tradition until last? Thought you only grabbed that one for free opera houses and a quick hermitage.

Is it even possible to get HG on Deity? I haven't been able to pull it off. The AI loves that wonder and usually builds it in the low 50's. Also you sacrifice a lot if you lose it to an AI as you will be way behind in tech without libraries yet. It would be amazing for OCC though if you can pull it off...maybe with Babylon?

I've gotten it in 3 of my last four tries at it, usually around turn 61-62. (seeing if it was possible)

 

[qalsip1977]

Is it even possible to get HG on Deity? I haven't been able to pull it off. The AI loves that wonder and usually builds it in the low 50's. Also you sacrifice a lot if you lose it to an AI as you will be way behind in tech without libraries yet. It would be amazing for OCC though if you can pull it off...maybe with Babylon?

Check my save. Got it.

Oh and that brings up a good point that has been in debate on this forum. Putting a couple of ranks in Liberty to get CR...I did and it's the only reason I was able to get HG! In the early part of the game when you need certain wonders for your strategy...having an extra worker on the map and an improved rate of completion on your tile improvements...is invaluable. I was able to get Maus of Hal, Temp of Art, AND HG...all because I had the workers to get mines on my 2 silver nodes, and quarries on my stone and marble. My production had a big spike. Because of MoH I was able to get a good economy going early so I rushed production on stoneworks and water mill as well. I'm sold on 2 ranks in Liberty!

MoH is a great addition to the ToA/HG/Tradition strat with Korea because of the large amounts of GP you produce. It really serves as a boon to your economy. Anyway, good luck with your OCC deity games, I am pretty sure I've got this one in the bag

 

[MadDjinn]

Check my save. Got it.

Oh and that brings up a good point that has been in debate on this forum. Putting a couple of ranks in Liberty to get CR...I did and it's the only reason I was able to get HG! In the early part of the game when you need certain wonders for your strategy...having an extra worker on the map and an improved rate of completion on your tile improvements...is invaluable. I was able to get Maus of Hal, Temp of Art, AND HG...all because I had the workers to get mines on my 2 silver nodes, and quarries on my stone and marble. My production had a big spike. Because of MoH I was able to get a good economy going early so I rushed production on stoneworks and water mill as well. I'm sold on 2 ranks in Liberty!

MoH is a great addition to the ToA/HG/Tradition strat with Korea because of the large amounts of GP you produce. It really serves as a boon to your economy. Anyway, good luck with your OCC deity games, I am pretty sure I've got this one in the bag

yeah, I've found that Tradition->Liberty->CR->Aristocracy hits right in time for building the HG.

3 workers preparing the grounds and ready to chop 5-6 forests (if available) will get you the HG pretty reliably.

As per the other wonders, it's different from game to game. Sometimes the AI really doesn't care about wonders, sometimes they take them all. I just tried this and got the Pyramids and Stonehenge after the HG. But that was at least 50 turns after each of them should have been gone.

 

[qalsip1977]

In this game I'm up against Egypt so I feel especially accomplished for getting all the wonders I did. Obviously having marble and aristocracy, along with workers developing production tiles, helpsbut I think the focus on growth in the city does as well. A city with only 3 population can only work 3 tiles so having good RNG with goodie huts (pop increase) and making sure my capital city grows at a strong rate helps utilize those tiles.

 

[RedRover57]

Do you tech right toward Math (obviously you also need Mining to chop) or do you also pick up Pottery - Writing earlier?

 

[qalsip1977]

I went for masonry to start, started MoH, then researched Archery, then went for Mathematics. As soon as MoH was done, I started ToA, then HG. When Mathematics was done I researched calendar so I could rush stoneworks to speed my production a little more. I had to go back to an earlier save 3 or 4 times to find a way to beat Egypt to HG...

 

[MadDjinn]

what was your timings?

seems like you got it really late, if you slow teched there.

Personally, I do the Pottery->writing, grab animal husbandry/archery/mining (order depends on DoW/mining lux/cows/sheep/horses) then off to Math.

 

[qalsip1977]

I don't know what the timings were. I just know the order. I finished the HG a few turns after the AI finished the GL. I went for HS next. I think I finished HG right as Theology was done so I was building it while I researched calendar, writing, philosophy, and theology (I bulbed Theology).

 

[qalsip1977]

Well I've been trying to finish this game and for three resets now, either Egypt or America is getting a science victory, even though I've done future tech probably half a dozen times now. I was going cultural but I guess I didn't get enough culture lol. 299 per turn at the end, 3 policy trees clear, 1 tree half clear, and 1 had 2 out of it done.

I guess I'll start a new game. Maybe I won't do Korea this time. I still want to do an OCC...

 

[qalsip1977]

I've given Egypt a try going for this with very little luck. The UA just isn't enough to make it worth it at Deity difficulty. I went with Siam this past game and it's going pretty well so far. I was actually able to get GL, then I got SH, HS, CI, ND, and SC. The only wonder I went for that I didn't get was the Oracle. I have Piety and Tradition finished and I've only just started the Renaissance. I haven't had enough cash to go for the cultural CSs yet but so far my culture is doing well without them. All of the AI civs are warring one another so I think it's going well for me so far.

Pangaea/Large/Deity rules, went with no barbs, OCC, and quick combat. I just go no barbs because when I'm doing OCC they are a real pain. Anyway...we'll see how it goes...

 

[evahaut]

I guarantee you that DaveMcW can do that with the Mongols within 24 hours. You might want to ban Keshiks (and probably Babylon) to have a $100-worthy achievement.

Care to explain how Keshiks are any different from ordinary ranged units in a OCC? Are you referring to their extra movement point?

 

[MadDjinn]

Care to explain how Keshiks are any different from ordinary ranged units in a OCC? Are you referring to their extra movement point?

move-shoot-move is very powerful. Especially when tied to a GG unit that moves just as fast and heals units. (2/turn)

Range/logistics/Indirect fire turn Keshiks into crazy beasts. (in volume of course)

since you insta-raze all cities (including capitals and city states) when you take them in an OCC, you only need 5 of the above beasts to tear a city down, and one horseman to kill it. So you can have a waste land planet in no time.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Care to explain how Keshiks are any different from ordinary ranged units in a OCC? Are you referring to their extra movement point?

The mobility of Keshiks essentially means that they can always deal damage each and every turn without ever taking damage in return. The usual problem on Deity is staying on the offensive despite the constant wear-and-tear on your units from hacking and slashing through the AI's hordes. Keshiks uniquely solve that problem.

Since they're scoring hits every turn and getting more XP for doing it, Keshiks also get to the critical Logistics promotion faster. That in turn causes them to gain even more XP, and pretty soon you've got an army of unkillable CKNs with a ton of stacked promotions that never needs to pause to catch its breath.

 

[qalsip1977]

So I've been working on this since the OP posted it. I thought I had a sure thing with my Korea game I posted but I screwed up my balance of science to culture and got way ahead of myself in science. I probably could have won a space race victory but my culture just didn't get there.

I've played as Korea, Egypt, Siam, and Babylon. I am considering the OP's idea and going with Polynesia on an archipelago map and see how that works. It's definitely very challenging with only one city. The AI expands so rapidly that it's nigh impossible to keep up with them. I'm also considering Persia as an option as well, going for CI and ND, and going for Tradition/Piety/Freedom.

Hopefully I can find a way because I don't like giving up!

 

[qalsip1977]

Ok so I played a game as Polynesia (total snorefest) and was well on my way to winning a cultural victory but I had the game pace at standard and it's just too damn slow these days. I'm too used to quick. Anyway I got sick of it taking so long so I turned it off.

Then I went Egypt on Archipelago/Small/Quick and OMG did I kick ass!!!! I got a lot of the key wonders early on and continued to beat the AI to wonders until Big Ben. That's when I fell behind (but I still got Christo and Sydney). Ole Alex was trying to out-fox me on the CS front (with his 25k gold it wasn't any big feat) but I would get the CS he'd take right back each and every time. He went for the UN and actually won the first time. I restarted from an autosave and this time I waited until 2 turns left until vote and then I stole 2 of the CS from him, and then declared war, no more stealing my CSs you jack-wagon! That gave me enough time to finish my Utopia and win. Good times!

 

[HamTard]

Is it possible to win Diety OCC with any of the default civilizations? I don't have Polynesia.

If so, what is the best strategy and game settings?