[Deity] Questions about religion

[Forbiddentwo]

First off, how do I maximize the odds of getting a religion while minimizing the degree to which I've screwed myself if I fail at doing so, short of playing Saladin and accepting whatever mishmash of religions are left over?

The things that come to mind are playing as Japan or Russia, but I've managed to fail at getting a religion with Russia, which made me realize that I need to make my initial build order more efficient when it comes to snagging one- preferably without leaving myself open to being steamrolled by the AI or barbarians (or some combination of the two).

Is reliably getting a religion with Philip on Deity out of the question? I really want to try his bonuses, but the AI is bad enough that it needs every bit of help that it can get...
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It did occur to me that I could use defender of the faith to bolster my defenses (which would be weaker than normal due to the alterations to my build order) but crusade would be preferable since the need to conquer cities from my neighbors will be even more urgent if I take a detour to snag a religion.

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For the curious, the reason why I want a really reliable way is because I tend to play with a friend in private games and I'd really prefer not to have to restart any more than absolutely necessary, and an early death-by-warriors has a way of forcing a new game...

In fact, in my latest game as Russia, I just barely missed out on getting a religion when America and some other civ jumped about 40 prophet points in one turn, shutting me out. At that point I had a pitiful two cities, but I was able to churn out horsemen. I then invaded Gorgo, only to find out that she had Defender of the Faith so her chariots could whup my horsemen. I still beat her initial forces but I didn't have enough of an army left to take her cities, let alone her reinforcements, so I had to flee.

Then the game decided that I couldn't make horsemen anymore because I didn't have access to two horse pastures, even though I still did, and they definitely had not been pillaged (I had this happen before in another multiplayer game, where I was unable to make Knights even though I had mines on two deposits of iron... until the game suddenly realized that I had them and I could). At that point I had to throw in the towel.

So much for my first attempt to show my buddy that Russia isn't as bad as she says.

 

[greygamer]

I have around an 80% success rate using the following approach. I don't usually play on deity but have tested this out (using Catherine and default settings) and that was my success rate at getting a religion. You need to match the AI advantage where you can.
Deity level players will get a religion even quicker than I can, but this has worked for me.

Don't rely on luck; don't expect to get a boost from finding a wonder or tribal villages. It's nice when it happens but you can have bad as well as good luck.

1. Get that second city up and running asap. The AI has 2 settlers which mean they can be producing 4-6 gpp by turn 40-50.
So don't move your settler more than 2 tiles from the start and pick a site that gets you to 2 pop quickly (3 food tile) but also that has good natural production. You need to ask yourself, at 2 pop what will the production be? How soon can I get that second city? The AI will have 2 cities by turn 10-14 for sure. If you find a close neighbour it might be worth grabbing that rather than build a settler but you shouldn't expect this to happen often. The AI has a head start but isn't good at make the most of it.

2. Take God King with your first economic policy. The faith will get you a pantheon (Divine Spark) so that your holy site is giving 2gpp, the gold means you can buy the shrine early to boost that to 3gpp
A second city with a holy site gets you to 4gpp

3. Research astrology asap, once that settler is built you want to start on a holy site

3. Get Divine Spark as your pantheon, it helps with science and culture later on but it's another gpp. You will get to 5gpp this way, 6 if you get a second shrine up.

3. Don't forget Holy Prayers ...but don't neglect the military.

You should be in decent shape by this point with at least 2-3 slingers and 2 cities so you can go for conquest to expand further if necessary or just expand peacefully.

 

[greygamer]

Oh a PS: Spending gold faith or gold can shave a turn or two off getting the great prophet. That's probably what the AI did to you.

 

[Noblebenj]

Heres how u get first religion with Philip or any none gp bosted civ. However, its high risk to say the least.

 

[Arent11]

3. Research astrology asap, once that settler is built you want to start on a holy site

Is it really completely impossible to get Stongehenge on deity?

 

[Bro]

Is it really completely impossible to get Stongehenge on deity?

No. Go China and build 1-2 builders while researching Astrology. Then go use those builder charges on that Stonehenge.

 

[greygamer]

Is it really completely impossible to get Stongehenge on deity?

I usually see it go between turn 25-30. so if you think you can get it before then go for it. However remember it's an all or nothing deal, if you fail you wasted all that production. Yes China can get it but you still need to be left alone while building otherwise an AI/Barb rush could end your chances.

The start is always a bit of a lottery so there are no guarantees on deity, you have to be open to changing your plans or re-starting. At least you should know if you can't get a religion by around turn 60-70 (sometimes even sooner)

 

[Bro]

I usually see it go between turn 25-30. so if you think you can get it before then go for it. However remember it's an all or nothing deal, if you fail you wasted all that production. Yes China can get it but you still need to be left alone while building otherwise an AI/Barb rush could end your chances.

You can usually pull one slinger out before your Astrology research is completed so there is no rush. A warrior and a slinger is enough to deal with a barb rush. The AI very rarely gets to you before about turn 30 and by that time you'll have your Stonehenge build and a couple of slingers more to deal with the AI.

The start is always a bit of a lottery so there are no guarantees on deity, you have to be open to changing your plans or re-starting. At least you should know if you can't get a religion by around turn 60-70 (sometimes even sooner)

Yeah of course it can go South, like having an AI joint war you and the barbs coming with 6 horsemen. But then you just take the loss like a big boy and start a new game.

 

[greygamer]

Yeah of course it can go South, like having an AI joint war you and the barbs coming with 6 horsemen. But then you just take the loss like a big boy and start a new game.

Yeah tell me about it, got joint DoW by Trajan and Gandhi. Trajan sent a chariot, I got my religion on turn 55 only for Gandhi to turn up with 4 elephants and other units. Hates warmongers? Hmmmmm

 

[Arent11]

No. Go China and build 1-2 builders while researching Astrology. Then go use those builder charges on that Stonehenge.

Ok, I just looked it up & apparently it requires stones to build. Which you will most of the time of course not have. Well, it was just an idea.

 

[joncnunn]

I'm really thinking on Civ VI Deity that it's not worthwhile trying to get a religion at all (possible exception of Arabia that gets the last prophet for free): Just get a pantheon via running God King. Use whatever faith you get for great people. The hammers and turns saved from NOT running prayers nor building holy sites can be used instead for military units and settlers.

 

[Bro]

Ok, I just looked it up & apparently it requires stones to build. Which you will most of the time of course not have. Well, it was just an idea.

The question was is it impossible to get Stonehenge with deity on which the answer is no. I believe it goes without saying that it is impossible to build Stonehenge without stone.

 

[Arent11]

The question was is it impossible to get Stonehenge with deity on which the answer is no. I believe it goes without saying that it is impossible to build Stonehenge without stone.

Of course. I just didn't know the requirements were so restrictive.

 

[joncnunn]

The question was is it impossible to get Stonehenge with deity on which the answer is no. I believe it goes without saying that it is impossible to build Stonehenge without stone.

Stone though, while less than half the time a specific player would start near it; is common enough that on a standard map with default number of AIs, multiple AIs will start with it. The other thread on how fast wonders are built by the AI on deity states Stonehenge is gone by turn 25 at the latest.

 

[Bro]

Stone though, while less than half the time a specific player would start near it; is common enough that on a standard map with default number of AIs, multiple AIs will start with it. The other thread on how fast wonders are built by the AI on deity states Stonehenge is gone by turn 25 at the latest.

Yup. That is the reason why China is the only civ that you can get it with.

 

[Forbiddentwo]

Oh a PS: Spending gold faith or gold can shave a turn or two off getting the great prophet. That's probably what the AI did to you.

Hmm, do projects provide enough GPP to be worth it?

*edit*

Also, that build order got me invaded by Norway, then France (the latter of which only just showed up as my capital fell).

The AI on Deity is quick to smell blood.

 

[greygamer]

Hmm, do projects provide enough GPP to be worth it?

*edit*

Also, that build order got me invaded by Norway, then France (the latter of which only just showed up as my capital fell).

The AI on Deity is quick to smell blood.

That depends on the great person, each great general gives a combat & movement bonus as well as a retirement bonus but the others are retirement based.

I found this poll thread on the forums Best Great Person Per Type Per Era which also breaks down all the great people and their benefits
Early on I do a lot of encampment training to get the first general at least, after that it depends on what I need to produce.