Deity science challenge standard size

[Memoryjar]

1) It is still worthwhile to build/conquer cities rather late (turn 150 or so depending on when I plan the game to end. But 50 turns or so is prolly enough to get a city going) if I have the gold to rush buy enough buildings/caravan to make it grow quickly/produce quickly.

So OCCstyle with Austria seems to be a good choice for peaceful game.

 

[Thorak]

If you want a peaceful game I would say Austria is probably the strongest. Not sure about the OCC though, you will run out of good city states to buy after a while and you need to keep some city states for happiness/culture/faith. Also happiness is a SERIOUS ISSUE when playing Austria.

I will try Austria once more for my next game as I feel they really have potential for a quick win.

 

[Thorak]

On second thought, I want to try inca highlands, aztechs lakes, spain pangea and indonesia/polynesia tiny islands as well so that austria game will have to wait...

 

[Cromagnus]

Aztecs are ridiculous on lakes. Planting a city and having 6 4-food tiles soon after without investing a worker is crazy, even without the 15% food bonus. And the bonus is significant. It can easily be +15 food or more. I've seen roughly 120 excess food without a trade route.

120 from tiles, +25% from ToA and FG, + hospital and granary, hanging gardens, floating gardens = 166. -72 for citizens = 94. +15% from religion, +10% from tradition: 117 excess food... That's enough for a size 40 city to grow in 2 turns lol

 

[Thorak]

Indeed, Aztec om lake is good, finished on turn 221, 1555 AD.

I had the plan from the begining to tech to artillery and then take a few more cities. I ended up not following that plan and instead planted 5 cities and never took another one. I had 2 wars, but I just killed some units for culture and gained 2 nice peace treaties with extra gold.

I played it a bit different this time, focusing on pop growth. Finished NC at 4 cities at turn 90+ somerthing (don't remember), modern era at turn 149, research labs all up at turn 180 -> 1500 BPT.

I feel I made 2 mistakes this game:
1) Should have taken 2-3 more cities or so at turn 150-160 when I could have teched artillery or produced more xbows and taken venice even earlier.
2) I popped a great engineer to get the telescope too early which caused me to miss out on 1 generated GS which could have shaved off a few turns from my finish.

 

[dinanipedro]

played a couple of these - babs 5 cities trad-pat-ratio-order t259 - planted 3 GS's
korea 4 cities trad-ratio-order t260 - planted 1 GS

both games on pangeas, revolutionary waves in both games, but dealt with - stuck with the komi's

wonders - oracle, kremlin, forbidden palace, hubble with babs - missed PT
with korea missed oracle but got PT

peaceful games, lots of ra's but i suspect much more could be signed - then no rush buy of buildings in expos and hard build lol

that lakes aztecs seems like fun

 

[haniblecter]

Problem with Maya is that even though it is really very easy to play and very allround it simply doesn't have the edge science bonuses of Korea and Babylon, and it doesn't have the possibility to peacefully expand to 8 cities or so like Austria has. I feel that if I wanted to go wide peacefully, I would much rather go tradition Austria to 4 cities, then once ideology hits buy out 4 city states or so. Hmm, that actually sounds very interesting, I got to give that one a try!

Ya, cause actually producing settlers and creating more cities is difficult?


I think you've beening playing soo many lame science games taht you forgot how to create cities larger than four.

 

[Thorak]

played a couple of these - babs 5 cities trad-pat-ratio-order t259 - planted 3 GS's
korea 4 cities trad-ratio-order t260 - planted 1 GS

both games on pangeas, revolutionary waves in both games, but dealt with - stuck with the komi's

wonders - oracle, kremlin, forbidden palace, hubble with babs - missed PT
with korea missed oracle but got PT

peaceful games, lots of ra's but i suspect much more could be signed - then no rush buy of buildings in expos and hard build lol

that lakes aztecs seems like fun

Welcome to the challenge. Aztec lake is one of the most fun maps to play.

Regarding Maya: problem is not building settlers or cities. Problem is finding spots with luxuries to keep the cities happy. I feel I really should give liberty maya a try though as it differs a lot from my normal tradition play.

 

[sun8119]

For some reason there was a link to this thread...

Can't open your Arabia save but a question arises. Did you have many RA in place despite the war and what were your city sizes? That is a very good time for standard settings and continents on deity.

I don't play BNW anymore but looking at my old saves I can see that my best times are pretty equal: 243 (poland) , 244 (maya) , 245 (arabia). All standard, deity, pangea. At that time it seemed that for <230 wins you really needed godly starts and/or plenty of lux/luck/constant 6-7 RA etc.

 

[Thorak]

Don't remember city sizes. RAs I probably had plenty as my warmongering was hidden to the other continent.

I think I could do it even faster as Korea doing a hwacha rush though. I'll try that one day.

 

[Tabarnak]

At that time it seemed that for <230 wins you really needed godly starts and/or plenty of lux/luck/constant 6-7 RA etc.

Land and civ are really important for fast science games. But not always. Sometimes the good things are just all reunited into a same game and you suddenly ''hit'' a great pace and know that will be a great game.

For example, the GOTM #82.

I finished at turn 230 and IronFighter finished at 220. America has nothing related to fast science victories. But, the land offered multiple mountain spots. It's probably more important than the civ itself.

For real fast science victories(i'm sure you can hit below 210 or even 200 on some maps) you need :

-A science focused civ(Aztecs because of food, Mayans, Babs, etc)
-Mountain spots area
-Rivers(for gardens and extra food)
-Immortal level(best level for fastest science victories. You can worker steal, do some RAs and some other things and still grabbing best med-ren. wonders)

Tommynt posted a sub 200 turns someday but i don't remember if it was under BNW

 

[Thorak]

These turn times are for deity. For lower difficulty levels they will be different, take for example the poland science victory on settler where I finished at turn 181.

My goal is t200 science vic on deity but I doubt I will ever manage that...

 

[Memoryjar]

For Tommynt, if I'm right it was T170 or so on settler too. But on Pangea, then Thorak made a T181 on archipelago.

I agree with Tabernak for Immortal, you can also win world fair.

 

[Tabarnak]

Sorry didn't realize that it was only for Deity. At that point you need some luck. I didn't bother about settler it's like cheating(Edit: the level itself...not the player ) anyway.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

I has just found this thread. I am a little surprised that the best result is 221T.

Besides GOTMs I only play deity games of standard size map, all else random and I do not want to brag, but it seems to me that I had similar results on these settings, but on the other hand the participation of the players wasn't too big in this challenge.

Definitely I'll try, but probably after the nearest GOTM.

 

[teqofc]

I imagine if you rolled enough that as Spain you'd get just the right map and be able to break 200 SV. I just submitted my first ever HoF attempt as a diety/standard Poland SV but was it was a lame turn 284 victory. At one point I had 32 happiness but by time Songhai and Portugal had taken over most of the world it was down to -5 right at launch

Going to try Spain and Aztec next. Just hope I had the right DLCs when I submitted my Hof attempt. Seems a bit confusing reading the threads knowing exactly which one is allowed.

 

[teqofc]

I has just found this thread. I am a little surprised that the best result is 221T.

Besides GOTMs I only play deity games of standard size map, all else random and I do not want to brag, but it seems to me that I had similar results on these settings, but on the other hand the participation of the players wasn't too big in this challenge.

Definitely I'll try, but probably after the nearest GOTM.

221 is damn good on diety with HoF rules. I don't know why you'd be surprised All the stars would have to align for a sub 200 victory. Now if this was before the fall 2013 patch then yea I'd say 221 should be broken because of the massive boost to research agreements on diety back then.

 

[teqofc]

Obviously, there's bonus growth from Tradition as well. But if you're limiting your growth by sending all trade routes to the capital, that diminishes as well. So, really, if you can find a way to solve your happiness issues, liberty has some advantages... Specifically, in the case of Korea and Babylon, their UA gives more value the more cities you have... it's not based on population.
Thoughts?

This got me thinking after my recent 3-city deity HoF Sweden DV game that I finished recently(not accepted yet) that I bet you pros could pull off a very wide(6-7 cities) Sweden liberty SV game in low 200s turn if you managed to get lucky and have enough room all the cities. Mainly because happiness is very easy to get with the GP gifts. I used my first two GW to ally one culture CS and one mercantile CS for early happiness and +cpt since I had bad luck with barb quests. Giving up those first two writers didn't hurt me a bit as I had enough culture to go full tradition, full pat, full rati and 6 in Freedom. I was pooping out so many GW, GA and GS in that game that even after I was ally with all CS I had enough GS to bulb and nearly fill the tech tree. But since I was aiming for a DV from the beginning I went Freedom and took the Treaty Organization tenet. I also unfortunately missed the world leader vote by 1 at turn 278 ugh due to a war that removed my diplomat which would have been a personal DV best(post fall 2013 patch) for me.

Reason I'm saying this is because in that Sweden game I could only get 3 city tradition and when I look back I had still enough science to probably win a turn 270-280 SV if I had taken Order and aimed for a SV instead of a DV. I had 257 science alone just from scholasticism. I'm not nearly as good as you guys so I'm thinking you could pull off a 200-230 Sweden SV going wide since happiness will not be an issue with the GP gifts. In my game I think I ended up gifting three GW, three GA, 1 GS and 1-2 GM and still generated plenty of GS to bulb.

So basically you would need.

*Lots of room for all the cities. Yea good luck on deity right
*Be friends with most civs through the entire game for that sweet GP bonus multiplier. My DV game I was friends with all up to ideologies and after that still friends with 4 civs till the end.
*Lots of good dirt so your cities can grow big
*Get lucky with spying. I got one of mine killed on 2nd attempt
*Have good enough terrain so that you don't spend forever getting your GP to the target CS

I might give this a try myself but kind of burned out on playing so much lately.