Democracy and republic

[chieflookout]

I need help with these governments. I've heard people rave about them, but I usually stay communist until I've conquered most of the world, then eventually switch to fundy. I'm curious how these two governments work. Specifically, how the soldier away from home unhappiness works. What really complicates things for me are the police station city improvement and Women's Suffrage wonder and their effect on things. I don't know if this means you can have more soldiers away from home, or if less people are unhappy if a soldier is away. Also, is it one or two unhappy people per soldier away, or is it a blanket unhappiness just for having any soldiers away? To become a good player, I need to master these two, but usually I've avoided using them because of the hassle, or given up after trying it because I couldn't figure it out. Anyways, I've read the power democracy thread, but that presupposes the reader knows the answer to this stuff. Any help would be appreciated, and thanks!

 

[Peaster]

I hope one of the ravers will answer you cuz I don't play these often myself. You don't need em if you play to conquer. Fundy or just monarchy is fine for that.

IIRC the answer is in the Civilopaedia (see Govts). A Police Station decreases the penalty per wandering unit (it decreases the number of unhappy citizens in the home city). You might also look at Nethog's webpage - there is a link to it in the "General" forum here. And IIRC it has a good short summary of all the govts and the penalties.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

First of all, waging major wars in either Republic or Democracy is not a good idea. The senate interference is one reason. Unhappiness caused by military units being away from home is another. When I switch to democracy I am planing to win the game by landing. I may face minor wars on my way, but nothing major.

In Republic the 1st unit away from home causes no unhappiness. After that every unit causes one content citizen to become unhappy. In democracy every unit away from home causes two content citizens to become unhappy. In democracy, a police station decreases 2 unhappiness per unit to just 1. In republic I suppose it reduces 1 to zero. Suffrage wonder is like having a police station in every city.

I never build police stations and Suffrage is one of my least favorite wonders. Every single time I recall building it, it has been just for the score. Perhaps, that is one reason no one responded here. Those who rave about republic and democracy do not wage war at the same time. Most of my games are peaceful with the aim of wining by landing. When I have to wage major wars in mid game, I switch to fundy for the duration. Once I am sure all my enemies are either wiped out or too weak to be more than a nuisance for the remainder of the game I switch back to democracy.

 

[Ace]

First of all, waging major wars in either Republic or Democracy is not a good idea. The senate interference is one reason. Unhappiness caused by military units being away from home is another. When I switch to democracy I am planing to win the game by landing. I may face minor wars on my way, but nothing major....
.

Two points: 1: in a Democracy, you don't need to wage a major war, you can just buy everything in sight with the coins generated by trade. But, if you are forced to fight, each city can support 1 or 2 units in the field without your gov falling. (and with a good sized civ, 40-100+ cities, you can put a lot of units in the field). 2: With a spotless reputation, after an AI civ has sneak attacked you 2 or 3 times, your senate will let you continue "peacekeeping" action against the nasty civ.

 

[macmgr]

Chieflookout -
I usually stay in monarchy until I've got enough happiness (temples, marketplaces, Shakespeare, Oracle, JS Bach, Women's Suffrage, etc) to add up to no riots. Of course, I'm a very conservative player - I play is for relaxation, not points. Are you optimizing Wonders such as Shakespeare? You need to re-home units out of cities.
bz

 

[chieflookout]

That's a good idea, I had forgotten the rehoming thing. Don't you eventually run out of support shields in the city that houses Shakespeare's Theater?

 

[Serutan]

You will; therefore if you want to use the Shakespear's city as a home for wandering
units you need to make sure it has high production.

 

[chieflookout]

I usually attack all the aggressive expansionistic civs and get rid of them, then try to leave the peaceful civs for trading. The only time I usually attack them is if they try to build cities that eat off my work area on small border cities. The funny thing is, I've had civs land settlers on an island I have expanded across, and build a city on a tiny spot of open land to get production from a square or two in one of my cities radii. That burns me up, especially when they have plenty of room to expand for themselves. I sometimes play to conquer, but usually I play for score, and I've just started trying to play thru prince level (tho time is limited now that I do school and work full time) and I thought I might need to learn these two to master higher difficulty levels.

 

[rrhal]

In the higher levels I usually want to get to Republic by about 1AD. The trick to making this work is to build all the happiness wonders. Hanging Garden is high on my list. With HG a republic with up to 12 cities can have 3 citizens before you must build a temple (with my standard 30% luxuries).

Once you build temples and market places you should be able to get your cities to WLTC day until they are size 7. This should give you more farmers working more squares than any other civ. Once you have aqueducts and Michelangelo's Cathedral you should be able to party them up to 11 or 12.

Republic/Democracy is all about making money and running the tech tree. You armies are trade caravans - and every one you land brings you closer to world domination. You don't attack city's - you buy them.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Democracy is great for your science...you get enough of a tech lead and you'll have superior military firepower available to you. So if you get sneak-attacked you can switch to commie or fundy and stomp a mudhole in the offending civ.

 

[Peaster]

Once you build temples and market places you should be able to get your cities to WLTC day until they are size 7. This should give you more farmers working more squares than any other civ. Once you have aqueducts and Michelangelo's Cathedral you should be able to party them up to 11 or 12.

I agree with most of this post, but I rarely build temples under any govt. I celebrate by raising the luxury rate to about 50% for maybe 6 turns, to get my cities to size 8, and another few turns later on after I have aqueducts. Then I lower luxury to maybe 30% (whatever it takes to avoid riots). I'd guess this is cheaper than building temples in every city.

I build marketplaces more often, since they have more ongoing benefits (taxes), but I mainly do this in cities with lots of arrows. I am still unsure about these, and libraries, for example.

But I don't play these govts often, so this post is really more of a question than a statement. Do temples pay off (compared to other options, such as building more cities, aqueducts, vans, etc) ?

Related question: When playing for early landing, is it worth the costs, to research Theology and build JSB ? If so, when is the best time ?

 

[SCG]

But I don't play these govts often, so this post is really more of a question than a statement. Do temples pay off (compared to other options, such as building more cities, aqueducts, vans, etc) ?

Related question: When playing for early landing, is it worth the costs, to research Theology and build JSB ? If so, when is the best time ?

a few years ago, solo came out with an early landing guide, and in it, he recommeneded temples as the only improvement for what he called helper cities (supplements to the SSC - super science city) until the corporation was discovered, and other than the SSC, never built aquaducts. using this strategy, several players were able to produce pre-400 AD landings on deity.

Monotheism and Theology were considered off-tech and generally not researched.

 

[Peaster]

Thanks. I just looked at solo's guide, but he doesn't explain why the helpers need temples. Also, I'm told that later on, some players had even more success with larger civilizations, and bigger/earlier trade. That style makes sense to me, so that's how I've played my few EL games.

I guess solo wanted to avoid the expense of Mike's and JSB, but these fit better in a big civ. I'm pretty sure at least one is needed for the second style of play, but am still unsure whether to build both. Probably solo built temples because he didn't build either of these WoWs.

In my last EL game, I built Mike's early and JSB fairly late (earlier is probably better). Researching Theology added a turn, but it eased my game. I got two techs per turn for 6 turns, partly from JSB, I think, so it probably paid for itself.