Denounced on turn 2

[JamesCivFan]

Alright, I think the title says it all. In my current game (France, Deity, 8 civs, 16 CS, Pangaea, Normal Speed), I met Japan on turn 2, right after moving my first warrior and settling my first city. Then, on the end of the very same turn, he "told the world of my sins".

Now, if someone knows what kind of sins I committed on turn 2, I'd really like him/her to tell me.

In all seriousness. This may possibly be, the worst, most insane diplomatic event that has ever happened to me in Civ5. It makes no sense whatsoever. Now, I'm not really going to rant on diplomacy as there are hundreds of topics about that. I just want to know what was your earliest Denouncement from an AI.

 

[westyofoz]

Turn 8 was mine so you beat me. Wonder if anyone has a first turn denouncing. It is pretty sad

 

[ButSam]

You met Japan, which means probably favoring the militaristic victory condition, and you are the first target. We always say the player should know what victory they are going for at the start and only change it if circumstances warrant, but when the same is done to you, it is horrible? Would you rather Japan pretended to be friendly to you and all of the sudden declared war? Sounds to me like you were put on notice early that Japan is being a warmonger.

I wouldn't worry too much about denouncing from a warmonger; the other AIs are not too likely to think highly of the warmongerer anyway. You can denounce Japan back, and you are likely to get the positive modifiers for denouncing the same person as other AIs have denounced.

 

[Uberfrog]

A further thing to note is that if you met Oda on turn 2, then you are very close indeed, so he is quite likely to covet your lands.

 

[mattavich]

Sounds realistic. It just doesn't like you and he's letting you know about it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[basta]

It's exceedingly obnoxious, agreed. I once ran into one of Elizabeth's scouts on turn 8 with my warrior, and she popped up, hostile, to tell me my economy was backward at the end of the turn. I wasn't in the mood and whacked the scout next turn. After about 30 turns, having taken out various scouts and a settler, I got a city and lots of other goodies.

Well it was immortal, not deity, but still I'd whack him asap, because he will you.

 

[Optional]

He can't have known of your sins, no. That's the bad thing. If it wasn't for that line I would be okay with it.

Hostility from the start is something that I can quite easily accept, it's often the exact lines that are given that are wrong.
You can also be exploring with your scout, run into a civ on the other end of the map, and immediately they are 'coveting your lands', while you're sure they haven't even seen your lands yet.

For sure it's sloppy design, lack of attention to detail, not enough lines of code.

 

[trueblue]

oh deary deary. the computer is trying to beat you. oh no.

 

[JamesCivFan]

You met Japan, which means probably favoring the militaristic victory condition, and you are the first target. We always say the player should know what victory they are going for at the start and only change it if circumstances warrant, but when the same is done to you, it is horrible? Would you rather Japan pretended to be friendly to you and all of the sudden declared war? Sounds to me like you were put on notice early that Japan is being a warmonger.

I wouldn't worry too much about denouncing from a warmonger; the other AIs are not too likely to think highly of the warmongerer anyway. You can denounce Japan back, and you are likely to get the positive modifiers for denouncing the same person as other AIs have denounced.

It's not the fact that he was a warmonger and denounced me, it's the fact that he said these lines. Secondly, I checked our modifiers on turn 3, right after the denouncement. It said "They covet your lands" . Now, I've seen that again many times, so I won't complain about that. I guess that he could have seen a couple of rivers nearby or something like that. The other one, the most ridiculous was "They believe you're trying to win the game in a similar way and they don't like it". Now go and explain that.

Last but not least. Yes, I would totally rather if he was Friendly and then attacked because it might seem just a bit more logical than what I saw.

 

[nokmirt]

Alright, I think the title says it all. In my current game (France, Deity, 8 civs, 16 CS, Pangaea, Normal Speed), I met Japan on turn 2, right after moving my first warrior and settling my first city. Then, on the end of the very same turn, he "told the world of my sins".

Now, if someone knows what kind of sins I committed on turn 2, I'd really like him/her to tell me.

In all seriousness. This may possibly be, the worst, most insane diplomatic event that has ever happened to me in Civ5. It makes no sense whatsoever. Now, I'm not really going to rant on diplomacy as there are hundreds of topics about that. I just want to know what was your earliest Denouncement from an AI.

Try the WWGD mod if I am correct. I think its WWGD, which is supposed to help with insane AI diplomacy. In my TSL Giant Earth Map game. I have not been denounced yet using that mod. Which is unusual, since I am playing as China, and my neighbors are the Mongols, and Japs. They have not denounced me yet. However, they are both guarded against me, and I have been expanding like a rabbit. I kid you not.

 

[HammerandSickle]

The other one, the most ridiculous was "They believe you're trying to win the game in a similar way and they don't like it".

You now, I really don't understand that. I mean, it's like turn 20 or something, and somebody tells me that we're behind the same goal. I know, we both want to win, but I haven't decided my victory type yet. Heck, I might have not adopted my first policy yet!!!

How, pray tell, can the AI know my victory type if I myself haven't chosen it yet?!

 

[Cicerosaurus]

oh deary deary. the computer is trying to beat you. oh no.

Did you read the conversation?

 

[joncnunn]

Your "sin" was founding your capital so close to Japan that they could see it on turn 2.

Better Japan than Germany; Germany does the "pretend friendship" in these situations.

 

[RebelCapitalist]

The other one, the most ridiculous was "They believe you're trying to win the game in a similar way and they don't like it". Now go and explain that.

This is simple. The keywords are: they believe.

It's not, they know. Battles throughout time are fought over beliefs, whether factual or not. For example, if you're a true warmonger, you probably "believe" other nation's leaders are as well and it's get them before they get you time.

If Civ V were more "diplomatically correct," you'd end up spending your time turning their "belief" into fact or the desired mindset.

In the instance above, that civ just decided you were going to win through domination and is reacting as such. Right or wrong, that's what they've chosen to believe.

 

[JamesCivFan]

This is simple. The keywords are: they believe.

It's not, they know. Battles throughout time are fought over beliefs, whether factual or not. For example, if you're a true warmonger, you probably "believe" other nation's leaders are as well and it's get them before they get you time.

If Civ V were more "diplomatically correct," you'd end up spending your time turning their "belief" into fact or the desired mindset.

In the instance above, that civ just decided you were going to win through domination and is reacting as such. Right or wrong, that's what they've chosen to believe.

Yes that may be true, but I'd like to know how did they make that assumption. There's absolutely no way to find that out when they haven't even seen any of my units except my first warrior.

 

[RebelCapitalist]

Yes that may be true, but I'd like to know how did they make that assumption. There's absolutely no way to find that out when they haven't even seen any of my units except my first warrior.

I'd like to know the coding aspect, but a couple of thoughts:

• They had a warmonger personality and therefore assumed you did.
• They are programmed (or in that instance) to assume you/civs will be winning through war
• Civ V randomly selects a victory type the civ thinks you'll be trying for
• Civ V matches the presumed victory type to the civ's personality (so, traditional Japan's personality = domination)

As to only seeing one of your units, it's a snap judgement.

It's kind of like when I play and see a unit from the Mongols. I assume they will be attacking at some point and act accordingly. I don't need to see other units or speak to them. I made a snap judgement.

Or how about when you play a game and then see another civ (or more) right in your area. Don't you get a little hostile and begin worrying you might lose tiles and valuable resources? You might have just seen a scout, but you're acting now. Granted, you don't denounce the civ, but you do have thoughts formed about their intentions.

Back to the thread title. I got denounced by Spain on turn 6 last night (1st game after buying the civ too). Every other turn she was saying that I have a puny army (um, we both had one unit), had weak this and that, barbarians should pick me off, etc. And then she teamed up with Elizabeth, who got in on the act. Sadly, both their civs were reduced to rubble.

 

[00konichiwa00]

I even get denounces right after I liberate a city by the civ I liberated (I played as Greece and liberated Spain). earliest denouncing have been maybe after 5 turns.