DenyD's Chieftain Culture Thread

[denyd]

I'm just about done (71K & 1K CPT) with a 100K Culture game on a Large Map as the Sumerians playing at Chieftain. I hope to be finishing tonight somewhere around 1600 AD. I'll start on a write up once I'm done and post a starting screen shot and save

I made a bunch of mistakes during this game and will be starting another one once it's done (unless COTM09 takes away my time) to hopefully beat that finish date. Among the mistakes was researching beyond the Middle Ages. There really is nothing beside Universities and Research Labs that makes the it worth spending the money, when you could be rushing culture buildings with the money saved on research in new cities. Being able to add rails & irrigating without fresh water are nice but can be worked around. I also have yet to go to war with anyone. I've got about 50% of the land and should have killed at least one AI and got closer to the domination limit. I also spent too much time building unnecessary buildings (courthouses, banks & factories). My core is also way to spread out. I was more interested in grabbing land early on, as I'm more accustomed to the higher levels when the land grab phase is over by 500 BC. I was still settling unclaimed territory in 1000 AD. I also triggered an unexpected Golden Age by bulding the Mausoleum. Who would have thought that a tomb would be scientific

More to come soon.

 

[Dianthus]

Among the mistakes was researching beyond the Middle Ages. There really is nothing beside Universities and Research Labs that makes the it worth spending the money, when you could be rushing culture buildings with the money saved on research in new cities. Being able to add rails & irrigating without fresh water are nice but can be worked around.

I think Replaceable Parts is worth getting. Civil Engineers make a big difference to all of those corrupt non-core cities when you're doing ICS. Infantry are pretty handy too for drafting as they can then be disbanded for 22s.

I also think Communism is worth getting to reduce corruption and give pop-rushing/drafting.

Of course, I'm only 2nd best at Standard/Chieftain. Who am I to give advice to the future #1 of Large/Chieftain .

 

[Gyathaar]

I think Replaceable Parts is worth getting. Civil Engineers make a big difference to all of those corrupt non-core cities when you're doing ICS. Infantry are pretty handy too for drafting as they can then be disbanded for 22s.

I also think Communism is worth getting to reduce corruption and give pop-rushing/drafting.

Of course, I'm only 2nd best at Standard/Chieftain. Who am I to give advice to the future #1 of Large/Chieftain .

Seeing that I used pretty much same tactic in my 100k game as you did, your advice isnt that bad
I started another standard 100k game today, but will ditch it I think.. I estimate a win date at around 1050AD, but that big enough gain to spend that many hours playing
I actually will go for modern ages and internet plus drafted MI for my next game.

 

[denyd]

It's the having to build new temples in all the new cities that's lost. I agree about the Civil Engineers, but as good as Communism might be for a very large empire, the 7-8 turns of anarchy are a killer. I only built about 10 E-Warriors early for scouting & barbarian hunting, then I let the SoZ & KT build my military until late when I built a couple of muskets for border garrisoning.

Being #1 is easy when you pick an empty table like I've done, holding it is the tough part (as the once #1 guy knows better than I).

BTW: for a 1200 AD 100K culture win, that's exceptional at any level

 

[Gyathaar]

I actually didnt find civil engineers useful at all.. I tried using them at first, but was more effective to just poprush the extra citizens away for faster growth.

Faster workers and drafted infantery was useful thou..

 

[denyd]

Game Setup:
Player: Sumerian
Opponents: England
Spain
Japan
Vikings
India
Egypt
Victory Condition: 100K Culture
Difficulty Level: Chieftain
Map Size: Large
Map Type: Pangaea
Barbarians: Roaming

Chapter 1 (4000 BC to 1000 BC):

Science Advances:
Starting Techs: Pottery & Bronze Working

Researched: Ceremonial Burial (3200 BC) – Mysticism (2510 BC) – Polytheism (1600 BC)

Traded For: None

Other: Masonry (Hut in 2270 BC) – Alphabet (Hut in 1910 BC) – The Wheel (Hut in 1830 BC) – Horseback Riding (Hut 1375 BC) – Iron Working (Hut in 1150 BC) – Mathematics (Hut in 1150 BC)

Cities Added (12):
Founded: Ur (4000 BC) – Sumer (2800 BC) – Lagash (2630 BC) – Kish (2430 BC) – Umma (2350 BC) – Agade (1600 BC) – Erech (1550 BC) – Isin (1475 BC) – Akshak (1425 BC) – Zabalam (1350 BC) – Kisurra (1250 BC) – Der (1175 BC)

Captured: None

Wonders Acquired:
Constructed: None

Captured: None

Notes: Settler from hut in 3200 BC
Chapter 2 (1000 BC to 500 AD):

Science Advances:
Researched: Monarchy (430 BC) – Philosophy (350 BC) – Currency (170 BC) – Map Making (50 BC) – Construction (150 AD) – Monotheism (250 AD) – Engineering (300 AD) – Theology (350 AD) – Invention (400 AD) – Gunpowder (450 AD) – Chemistry (500 AD)

Traded For: None

Other: Writing (Hut in 900 BC) – Literature (Hut in 875 BC) - Code of Laws (Hut in 410 BC) – Republic (Philosophy bonus in 350 BC) – Feudalism (Age change bonus in 150 AD)

Cities Added (25):
Founded: Kua (900 BC) – Marad (590 BC) – Kuara (490 BC) – Kutha (490 BC) – Nagsu (390 BC) – Susa (370 BC) – Tutub (290 BC) – Kutallu (210 BC) – Anshan (110 BC) – Babil (90 BC) – Apisala (30 BC) – Dabrum (110 AD) – New Ur (130 AD) – New Sumer (170 AD) – New Lagash (260 AD) – New Kish (330 AD) – New Umma (350 AD) – New Bad-tibira (380 AD) – New Erech (430 AD) – New Isin (440 AD) – New Akshak (440 AD) – New Zabalam (460 AD) – New Kisurra (470 AD) – New Der (480 AD) – New Kua (500 AD)

Captured: None

Wonders Acquired:
Constructed: Pyramids (Sumer in 390 BC) – Temple of Artemis (Ur in 250 BC) – Colossus (Umma in 130 AD) – Sun Tzu’s War Academy (Umma in 210 AD) – Forbidden Palace (Kish in 210 AD) – Oracle (Sumer in 380 AD) – Hanging Gardens (Ur in 390 AD) – Mausoleum of Mausollos (Lagash in 430 AD)

Captured: None

Notes: Currency produces SGL (#1) – Map Making produces SGL (#2) – Revolt to Republic in 10 BC draws 6 turn anarchy – Surprised by Golden Age when MoM is built in 430 AD
Chapter 3 (500 AD to 1250 AD):

Science Advances:
Researched: Chivalry (540 AD) – Printing Press (590 AD) – Metallurgy (680 AD) – Military Tradition (780 AD) – Education (920 AD) – Music Theory (960 AD) – Banking (1000 AD) – Economics (1040 AD) – Democracy (1080 AD) – Free Artistry (1120 AD) - Astronomy (1170 AD) – Physics (1220 AD)

Traded For: None

Cities Added (45):
Founded: New Marad (510 AD) – New Kuara (510 AD) – New Kuatha (540 AD) – New Nagsu (540 AD) – New Susa (550 AD) – New Tutub (550 AD) - New Kutallu (580 AD) – New Anshan (580 AD) – New Babil (630 AD) – New Apisala (640 AD) – New Dabrum (710 AD) – Ur2 (830 AD) – Sumer2 (830 AD) – Lagash2 (840 AD) – Kish2 (850 AD) – Umma2 (850 AD) – Bad-tibira2 (850 AD) – Agade2 (880 AD) – Erech2 (880 AD) – Isin2 (890 AD) – Akshak2 (890 AD) – Zabalam2 (900 AD) – Kisurra2 (920 AD) – Der2 (930 AD) – Kua2 (940 AD) – Marad2 (940 AD) – Kuara2 (970 AD) – Kutha2 (1000 AD) – Nagsu2 (1010 AD) – Susa2 (1010 AD) – Tutub2 (1020 AD) – Kutallu2 (1040 AD) – Anshan2 (1040 AD) – Babil2 (1040 AD) – Apisala2 (1060 AD) – Dabrum2 (1070 AD) – New Ur2 (1070 AD) – New Sumer2 (1080 AD) – New Lagash2 (1110 AD) – New Kish2 (1120 AD) – New Umma2 (1120 AD) – New Bad-tibira2 (1140 AD) – New Agade2 (1140 AD) – New Erech2 (1190 AD) – New Isin2 (1220 AD)

Captured: None

Wonders Acquired:
Constructed: Sistine Chapel (Susa in 510 AD) – Great Wall (Nagsu in 540 AD) – Great Lighthouse (Ur in 550 AD) – Temple of Zeus (Lagash in 550 AD) – Great Library (Sumer in 570 AD) – Leonardo’s Workshop (Sumer in 660 AD) – Knights Templar (Agade in 710 AD)

Notes: Chemistry produces SGL (#3)

[Note: I'll post the final chapter tomorrow when the game is complete, currently at 85K with over 1k per turn]

 

[Moonsinger]

Opponents: England
Spain
Japan
Vikings
India
Egypt

I have similar setup, except that I have no Religious civ in my game. I follow DaveMcW's advice for a chance to get a Ceremonial Burial SGL. Since Ceremonial Burial is much cheaper and faster to research than Masonry, I figure why not improve upon Dave's concept. I have been playing through about a dozen maps so far, still no luck on that SGL yet. Anyway, good luck on your game!

 

[Moonsinger]

Btw, what Great Wonder did you build in 430 AD that triggered the Golden Age? You said "MoM", but what is MoM? For some reason, that doesn't ring any bell. Thanks!

 

[superslug]

Btw, what Great Wonder did you build in 430 AD that triggered the Golden Age? You said "MoM", but what is MoM? For some reason, that doesn't ring any bell. Thanks!

Mausoleum of Mausollos would be my only guess. It triggers GA's for scientific civs.

EDIT: Great little secret where I easily looked it up:
Online C3C Civilopedia

 

[denyd]

Correct. I didn't realize that the Mausoleum (MoM) would be scientific. I thought it would be religious. How it also got seafaring is another mystery to me.

I didn't think about dropping the religious tribes. I didn't want any expanionists (reason: no competition for huts from scouts), agricultural (reason: less expansion), scientific (reason: my BW would be valuable in trade) or industrious (reason: so my mansonry research could have a SGL chance). As it was I ended up getting masonry from a hut before I could research it. Next time, I'll probably drop the religious and add the industrious.

 

[LulThyme]

I have similar setup, except that I have no Religious civ in my game. I follow DaveMcW's advice for a chance to get a Ceremonial Burial SGL. Since Ceremonial Burial is much cheaper and faster to research than Masonry, I figure why not improve upon Dave's concept. I have been playing through about a dozen maps so far, still no luck on that SGL yet. Anyway, good luck on your game!

But what wonder do you build with SGL?
If pyramids, you need to either research masonry which defeats the purpose, start with it which means industrious which isnt that great in this case, or trade for it?
So you research cere and trade for masonry?

 

[denyd]

I used one for Sun Tzu, one for Sistine and one for Leo's. I had already completed most of the AA Wonders (Pyramids, Temple of Artemis particularly) when I got the first one (currency). The others came with Map Making and Chemistry.

What I tried was to research CB for temples and then go for masonry (hoping for a SGL for pyramids) and then back to Myst & Poly (the next SGL for ToA). However I got masonry from a hut before finishing CB.

Next time, I'm going to use Industrious AI and no religious and hope for the SGL on CB and then trade (or hut) for masonry and hurry the pyramids. For a culture win ToA might be a better choice though.

 

[Moonsinger]

But what wonder do you build with SGL?
If pyramids, you need to either research masonry which defeats the purpose, start with it which means industrious which isnt that great in this case, or trade for it?
So you research cere and trade for masonry?

Since this is the Chieftain level, it won't be that hard to pop tech from the hut. I usually pop CB from the hut all the time. If I search for CB, naturally, it won't be hard to pop Masonry out of the hut.

 

[denyd]

Chapter 4 ((1250 AD to 1650 AD):

Science Advances:
Researched: Theory of Gravity (1260 AD) – Magnetism (1280 AD) – Steam Power (1310 AD) – Electricty (1345 AD) – Replaceable Parts (1375 AD) – Scientific Method (1405 AD)

Traded For: None

Other: Medicine (Age change bonus in 1280 AD) – Atomic Theory (TOE Bonus in 1465 AD) – Electronics (TOE Bonus in 1465 AD)

Cities Added:
Founded: New Akshak2 (1290 AD) – New Zabalam2 (1295 AD) – New Kisurra2 (1295 AD) – New Der2 (1320 AD) – New Kua2 (1350 AD) – New Marad2 (1355 AD) – New Kuara2 (1380 AD) – New Kutha2 (1380 AD) – New Nagsu2 (1385 AD) – New Susa2 (1395 AD) – New Tutub2 (1395 AD) – New Kutallu2 (1400 AD) – New Anshan2 (1400 AD) – New Babil2 (1405 AD) – New Apisala2 (1405 AD) – New Dabrum2 (1425 AD) – Ur3 (1440 AD) – Sumer3 (1440 AD) – Lagash3 (1440 AD) – Kish3 (1460 AD) – Umma3 (1525 AD)

Captured: None

Wonders Acquired:
Constructed: JS Bach’s Cathedral (Lagash in 1255 AD) – Smith’s Trading Post (Sumer in 1300 AD) – Shakespeare’s Theatre (Ur in 1310 AD) – Copernicus’ Observatory (Akshak in 1335 AD) – Newton’s University (Susa in 1390 AD) – Theory of Evolution (Sumer in 1465 AD) – Hoover Dam (Lagash in 1545 AD)

Captured: None

Notes: 100K Culture Victory in 1575 AD – Time: 26 hours 5 minutes – Score: 1781

 

[denyd]

I'll be re-visiting this one soon to "complete" it again.

It seems that when you use Snoopy's graphics, the culture limit is set to 100K even for large worlds. Once I've completed part II, I'll return and add the needed 25 turns or so.

 

[superslug]

It seems that when you use Snoopy's graphics, the culture limit is set to 100K even for large worlds. Once I've completed part II, I'll return and add the needed 25 turns or so.

Denyd is correct about this bug. Formal staff policy and rules adjustments will be announced with the update next week.

 

[denyd]

This is revised ending for my first 100K Culture game. I've picked up where the game ended at 100K and completed to the 130K mark. A lot of what I learned in this game was put into practice on my second game which showed a 300+ year improvement in completion.

Chapter 4 ((1250 AD to 1650 AD):

Science Advances:
Researched: Theory of Gravity (1260 AD), Magnetism (1280 AD), Steam Power (1310 AD), Electricty (1345 AD), Replaceable Parts (1375 AD), Scientific Method (1405 AD), Industrialization (1590 AD)

Traded For: None

Other: Medicine (Age change bonus in 1280 AD), Atomic Theory (TOE Bonus in 1465 AD), Electronics (TOE Bonus in 1465 AD)

Cities Added (45):
Founded: New Akshak2 (1290 AD), New Zabalam2 (1295 AD), New Kisurra2 (1295 AD), New Der2 (1320 AD), New Kua2 (1350 AD), New Marad2 (1355 AD), New Kuara2 (1380 AD), New Kutha2 (1380 AD), New Nagsu2 (1385 AD), New Susa2 (1395 AD), New Tutub2 (1395 AD), New Kutallu2 (1400 AD), New Anshan2 (1400 AD), New Babil2 (1405 AD), New Apisala2 (1405 AD), New Dabrum2 (1425 AD), Ur3 (1440 AD), Sumer3 (1440 AD), Lagash3 (1440 AD), Kish3 (1460 AD), Umma3 (1525 AD), Bad-tibiri3 (1585 AD), Agade3 (1585 AD), Erech3 (1585 AD), Isin3 (1590 AD), Akshak3 (1590 AD), Zabalam3 (1590 AD), Kisurra3 (1590 AD), Der3 (1590 AD), Kua3 (1590 AD), Marad3 (1590 AD), Kuara3 (1595 AD), Kutha3 (1595 AD), Nagsu3 (1595 AD), Susa3 (1600 AD), Tutub3 (1600 AD), Kutallu3 (1605 AD), Anshan3 (1605 AD), Babil3 (1605 AD), Apisala3 (1615 AD), Dabrum3 (1615 AD), New Ur3 (1615 AD), New Sumer3 (1620 AD), New Lagash3 (1625 AD), New Kish3 (1650 AD),

Wonders Acquired:
Constructed: JS Bach’s Cathedral (Lagash in 1255 AD), Smith’s Trading Post (Sumer in 1300 AD), Shakespeare’s Theatre (Ur in 1310 AD), Copernicus’ Observatory (Akshak in 1335 AD), Newton’s University (Susa in 1390 AD), Theory of Evolution (Sumer in 1465 AD), Hoover Dam (Lagash in 1545 AD)

Notes: Reach 100K in 1575 AD – Time: 26 hours 5 minutes – Score: 1781


Chapter 5 (1650 AD to 1900 AD):

Science Advances:
None

Traded For: None

Other:

Cities Added (1):
Founded: New Umma3 (1655 AD)

Captured: None

Wonders Acquired:

Captured: None

Notes: Reach 130K in 1670 AD – Score: 1882