Department of Geeks & Numbers

[Tubby Rower]

orange = 5th place. I figure that since it might matter latter on, that we needed to know who was in what place. Before I had assumed that the capitals we're tied when they had the same pop.....but now we know different.

 

[Pentium]

.....but now we know different.

Explain to the idiot.... What do we know now?

 

[Tubby Rower]

We know that something happened to the TNT capital. There was a turn transition (34->35) that the TNT capital (Dancing Banana) went from pop 1 to pop 4. a couple of turns later the 4 pop TNT capital was one behind in the rankings to a 2 pop MIA capital (Athens).

If the culture was equivalent then the TNT capital would have been ahead of Athens in the rankings. But since Athens was ahead of the Dancing Banana then some sort of culture loss happened in TNT.

Two explanations could have caused this.....anarchy or loss (abandonment, or hostile takeover) of the original city and then the palace jumped to another city. The former case I hope for their sake didn't happen. The latter case, would have caused the palace to reset to 0 culture in the new city. And it is now only earning 1 culture per turn instead of 4 (2k years = 4x original culture). Once TNT is met, the culture graph will confirm this theory. We still don't know exactly what happened, but Provo has indicated to Daghie that it was a mistake.

 

[Nikodemus]

We have so many active threads going on that I'm not sure which one to use.

Anyway, Tubs, with your superb spreadsheets, have you looked at how much, if at all, we should pop-rush the granary in Dunderhead? What about the upcoming granary in Ignoramus? It seems that with all the food around there it would be beneficial to turn some of the population into shields, but happiness issues might be hard to deal with.

 

[Tubby Rower]

No I hadn't thought of pop-rushing...to be honest I almost never pop-rush.

I'll look at it and see what the cost vs benefit will be.....I'll get back with youin the next couple of days.....Thanks for the idea

 

[Tubby Rower]

Here is my attempt at the Dunderhead project. I'm not sure about when the bg's will be mined. so we might have to adjust but it could be done.

Assumptions:
1. 21% waste as reported by CA2 rounds to the nearest number. (our second shield wasn't wasted but our 3rd was and this matches)
2. the bg's will be mined in time that they are needed. The 1st one won't be that big of a problem but the 2nd and 3rd one will need to be on time or earlier)

 

[Tubby Rower]

Same assumptions as before except that Ignoramus has 24% waste.

The worker that comes out of Ignoramus in 3 more turns will be needed to improve this area.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

All praise the Rower

 

[Tubby Rower]

It wasn't my idea....Niko had the brilliance to think of pop-rushing. I just made a new column in a worksheet.

 

[Nikodemus]

Now, I see a couple of possible issues.

Firstly, I think you didn't take corruption properly into account during the growth turns. Looking at the 4-turn cycle in Dunderhead, turns 62-65, you have 8 uncorrupted shields on the second turn of the cycle. But one of those shields that get added with growth goes to waste, so in reality I think we'll only produce 7 uncorrupted shields that turn. That would be a kind of a problem, because it would put the whole cycle at 6+7+7+9=29 shields. So it would seem that we need sizes 5 and 6 for the 4-turner in Dunderhead.

There's a similar issue with the 2-turn cycle in Ignoramus. On the second turn of the cycle one of the 2 extra shields would again go to waste, leaving the cycle at 4+5=9 shields. However, this we can simply fix by mining another bg, so that it'll be 5+6.

Then, it appears you've dropped 2 people out of Ignoramus when rushing, but at 42 shields it only costs 1 citizen. Also I'm not sure if I'm reading the chart correctly, but I think you're dropping Dunderhead's population on the chart a turn too late. We'd have only 2 citizens on turn 45, right?

Finally, there's the issue of happiness. How high do we need to have lux tax at to keep Dunderhead's people content? I'm afraid it's going to be so high that just because of that we can't afford to rush with more than 1 citizen at most. Note that it wouldn't necessarily have to be in the end. We could switch to settler at 10 shields, rush it with 1 citizen and switch back to granary. Or the same thing at 20 shields, except use barracks instead of settler.

Just one more thing. I tried to guesstimate what would happen in Dunderhead if we didn't rush the granary at all. The granary would surely complete around the same time as the first settler after the rush, and then we'd be ready for the 4-turn cycle right away instead of doing a couple of 5-turn settlers. So in practice rushing with 2 people only seems to save a couple of turns at most, with the cost of some extra unhappiness for a significant amount of time.

I'm afraid this became a little messy, hopefully you can make some sense out of it.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Niko you are correct on most of your points....Ignoramus only needs to drop 1 citizen. I've never planned for waste so the 2 shields from growth might be split in half. The pop drop due to rushing is not at the right time.

I haven't looked at the effect of not rushing yet. I was doing this right before I went home from work yesterday and didn't have enough time to check my work and research the waste bit.

Since we have a few turns before we need to have this down, I can research it a little more and play with the numbers more.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I checked and Ignoramus would be squirting workers out at the same time. We'd also have 1 "extra" shield in case something doesn't work exactly like we think.

Checking Dunderhead now

 

[Nikodemus]

So it would seem that we need sizes 5 and 6 for the 4-turner in Dunderhead.

To reply to myself, I realized it should also work out of sync at sizes 4, 5, 5 and 6, producing 7+7+9+9= 32 shields (uncorrupted).. or with one less mine, or a mined grassland instead of a mined bg we could get 7+7+8+8=30.

It gets surprisingly complicated when you add corruption and unhappiness to the equation.

 

[Tubby Rower]

thanks Niko!

I checked Dunderhead and Niko was correct... it doesn't make sense to pop-rush either. Not much is gained and the unhappiness wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Daghdha]

Score turn 41 (same pre-post):
TNT-170
KISS-155
Nuts-149
MIA-148

 

[Pentium]

We're only 3rd in land area? Weren't we leading for some time?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

We haven't founded cities for some time either

 

[IroquoisPlisken]

I'm not sure about Turn 40, but we were 1st during Turn 39. MIA just got a new town, so that would explain 2nd. Ah, and looking at Tubby's spreadsheet in Post 179 shows that TNT must've gotten a settler during turn 38 and Doughnuts got one a turn later, so that would explain 3rd place.

 

[Daghdha]

Jesterton is settled so it will look nicer nxt turn and before you can say "4 turner" we'll be ahead..Oh, and before you can say "Double 4-turner" we'll be flying .

Edit: Here's the magic F11 for turn 42 (Ssssh....don't tell).

 

[Tubby Rower]

Here is the new updated F11 stats.... I find it odd that Shelbyville hasn't grown... but if they are on a war footing then they might be maximizing shields. but we are only 2nd in mfg goods (unwasted shields). someone isn't producing

The blip in our standing in disease was basically MIA & D'nuts settling on non-FP or jungle tiles.

I suspect that our military service is 3rd just ahead or tied with MIA