Department of Scouting

[Kickbooti]

Also...

Thanks to Whomp's pattern recognition I think we have a good idea on where our neighbors are.

Two questions...

1) How confident are we in the symetry of the geography?

Assuming a high degree of confidence...

2) How do we take advantage of what I am assuming is early info on our opponents positions?

Should we shift our city planting to meet them (west) or to avoid them (east). Do we flood scouts in a SW direction to stake out our positions/make our presence known? Should we have a ring settling scheme or a forward deployment plan, relying on roads and Galic Swordman's mobility?

Also, IF the planet is symetrical, and IF the continents are more or less mirrors of one another, I would assume that crossable points from one to anohter would be about the same distant from each civ. Making those assumptions my thought would be that the crossing point for our southern neighbor would be on the west coast and ours would be on the east.

When we get curraghs I would send our first to the east.

So many questions.

After a post like this I think of Henry Kissinger's words...

"It is the duty of [leaders] not to recognize complexities but to resolve them."

This post humbly submitted by an avowed sheep...

KB

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'm not that confident that the symmetry is all that exact. There might be some just to balance out the starting position, but I doubt that it will be a perfect mirror. One reason is that we are just now at the equator and are also below the midline of the symmettrical pattern that Whomp found. Unless the continent is skewed north of the equator then it's not a perfect mirror.

With that being said, I think that it is something to be taken into account.

 

[Whomp]

There are some differences but Rik created a balanced map and the other civ would have 4 turn settler type terrain just like us. We are approaching that type of landmass.

The other thing is, with my simple mind, with the four dyes surrounding that mountain Rik looked for a land grab with the two civs on the continent. It kind of tells me that each of us are equidistant to the dyes. There are four dyes (not one like incense) and in my view the only dyes. That type placement was for a reason. It doesn't seem to be coincidence to me.

 

[Tubby Rower]

True, true.

 

[Kickbooti]

Go for the goodies! Go for the goodies!

 

[Bede]

The other thing is, with my simple mind, with the four dyes surrounding that mountain Rik looked for a land grab with the two civs on the continent. It kind of tells me that each of us are equidistant to the dyes. There are four dyes (not one like incense) and in my view the only dyes. That type placement was for a reason. It doesn't seem to be coincidence to me.

The above (emphasis added) is sine dubio the most significant.

Conclusions: the only tradeable surplus oin this continent. Control of all four will be HUGE.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think we need to make the dyes city one of our top priorities or at least set up a block.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Perhaps we should start talking about what we should do when we meet another civ. It seems one of the teams has met one of the other teams. I'm not exactly sure how this works in a Demo game or in a PBEM.

 

[Pentium]

It depends on what we and they have.

We can also include longer peace treaty, if one is stronger and the other has techs.

 

[Daghdha]

Here is my assorted musings on what to do when we meet CivX on our cont.

Our neighbours are Greek
Their military strenght is defense with Hoplites. They will probably be eager to sign a longer peace deal and then to support each other to build a stronger "continent" than the 2 opponents have. Sice we will be faster in expansion this would be beneficial for us. We would be wise to avoid attacking Greece without a considerable amount of Swords. Being bigger than Greece is also good when negotiating. They're commercial and will be in the tech frontline if left alone. When it is time to grab more land, before they have muskets, a nice deal may be available if we manage to swarm them with GS's. That would also mean we get a GA when in rep/mon. If we're confident enough we can slow down tech pace in midway AA and save gold for mass upgrading warriors. We can trade luxes (very useful in this scenario) for techs. We can also agree on researching different paths and then trade techs.
Conclusion: Accept a peace deal that covers AA. Stay out of trouble to save the GA. Aid Greece in science and focus on a peaceful expansion.

Our neighbours are Persian
They will be on their watch knowing all others want to see them whacked. Their military strenght is early wars with the troublesome Immortals. they know that military alliances are weak before sea transports can carry any significant amount of troops. Thus, they might figure they can handle an early attack on us even if we ally with others. On the other side, they may be interested in protection and a long term peace with us. Again our faster REX can serve us well. I would prefer a peace deal where we can outexpand them peacefully before attacking in late AA. If they deny signing peace we can infer they want to go the war path. In that case a sign up with MIA and D-nuts are important. Writing and embassies should be high priority if that be the case. This may be the best scenario for us. We will be in a good position to take control over our continent if MIA and D-nut join in whacking TNT. Of course they, MIA and Nuts, are aware of that. They are probably reluctant to aid in creating a monster Celt nation so we will be forced to throw in a lot of goodies to make it work. Hopefully their animosity towards the un-official persian leader works in our advantage.
Conclusion: Go for peace treaty on same grounds as with Greece. If denied, sign up with others to whack Persia.

Iros are our neighbours:
This is IMO the trickiest scenario. I would prefer to cooperate with this lot sice they have some really crafty war mongerers in the ranks. A close alliance and an AA peace deal would be great. Then we could agree on a, late AA, joint campaign against other continent to make lebensraum. My guess is we will have Nuts with us in an attack on Persia . If we share Persia, MIA will be caught between a rock and a very hard place. If they want to make immediate use of the MW we might be in some trouble. I'll leave to military HQ to handle such a scenario.
Conclusion: Again, peace is to be prefered. If we can expand graciously, without snatching too much goodies, we might have a great friend in the Iros.
They will also be interested in not triggering their GA until rep/mon. Futher expansion should take place on opposing continent.

Summary: As stated elsewhere, everything is to benefit from peace through most of AA. the strenght of our agri trait goes well with a peaceful expansion and if we are allowed to build up GS's throughout this era they will come in full use at the appropriate time, i.e. before enemy has Muskets but after we have rep/mon.
MPP's will not be available until nationalism so that's out of the question. Some early emassies would be good 'thou so we can sign embargos or MA's if neccesary. We are wise to keep Persia on an armslenght knowing other teams prolly wants to whack them.

 

[Nikodemus]

So as it turns out, our neighbours are the Greeks. Here's the Greek diplo screen and some information from the various advisors, copied from the other thread cos I realized it fits better here:

Military advisor says our military is weak compared to them.
Foreign advisor says they are impressed with our culture and that they're annoyed with us.
Science advisor knows that we're technologically advanced.
F8 screen tells that they're at 2% area, 16% population. We're at 2/29.

 

[Daghdha]

I can make a pretty strong case that no one went for the Philo sling.

These are the 4 most important things in this game.
1. REXing--Requires Persians and Greeks research pottery first. My guess is they both started down this path.
2. Military--Iroquois have none so going philo doesn't seem to be in their best interest. It would leave them extremely vulnerable. So they'd have to research BW, WC or go for their UU wheel and HBR the way I see it. The other two are probably set in this area starting with spears and hoplites. Persians may go IW after Pottery and I think Greeks may have gone writing after pottery since they are less concerned about attackers.
3. Contacts--Greeks and Iroquois have the edge with early curraghs possibly going out right now. Let's hope they are on different continents.
4. Governments--I don't see anyone wanting to research CB so it's our monopoly. However it is still required by everyone along with the other two to get out of the AA so it's more valuable than we may think.
Also our edge because we can change governments anytime we want and they can't. The other teams must research the bottom half of the path at some point but I don't think it's a priority right now. Maybe after they have filled in some of the other requirements they will so maybe we can wait on the myst research until we make contacts.

1, 2. Looks like they didn't choose pottery. Why? They have strong defenders and start with BW. I guess they want some offense and went for IW and swords. If that be the case they're planning on taking land by force rather than by REX'ing peacefully and we will both have IW soon. Other possibility is they did choose the philo sling.
3. They probably didn't start an early curragh but can send one out before us if not already under way.
4. Obviously they have left the lower path be for now. It's our monopoly so far.

Maybe we should offer them IW when in and see what they're willing to trade. A good bid suggests they're going philo. If they'rer reluctant, they may soon have it done themselves.
A nice peace deal and mutual research program would be the best methinks. At the end of AA we will have the most offensive power anyway and any aggression could be postponed until then.

 

[Nikodemus]

I would assume they went for the slingshot, hoping to trade for pottery. We're another 3 turns away from IW, but if they really wanted pottery bad, we could even get alpha for pots and CB? They wouldn't even need to know we have WC yet. Of course in the interest of creating confidence and having a working long-term relationship it might be worthwhile to be a little more open.

 

[Whomp]

Great news!!
What you see in the trade screen means absolutely nothing. We will never see what is on the other side of the diplo screen.

OK we need to draw something up.

 

[Daghdha]

We will never see what is on the other side of the diplo screen.

What we will see is what isn't, right?

 

[Crakie]

I would assume they went for the slingshot, hoping to trade for pottery. We're another 3 turns away from IW, but if they really wantedTE=Nikodemus] pottery bad, we could even get alpha for pots and CB? They wouldn't even need to know we have WC yet. Of course in the interest of creating confidence and having a working long-term relationship it might be worthwhile to be a little more open.

Sounds like an interesting option. If we can get alphabet that way, and can put something more on the table for writing (assuming they are researching that), we might cooperate on the republic slingshot. We could even consider funding their research to crank it up to maximum capacity to make sure the other continent does not get the free tech.

 

[Whomp]

Agreed Crakie. This way once they are finished we can research CoL (more expensive) while they crank out philo for a sling. I can see no way there others can finish before us by popping those early settlers.

We just need to coordinate finishes. The other thing that is nice is if we can get alpha we our timing on our coastal city will be perfectly timed.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

How would we fund their research? Just give them cash? That takes a lot of trust. Can we trust these guys?

 

[Daghdha]

One way to fund their research is to offer luxes so they can keep lux-slider down. I would prefer that so we can gather cash for the forthcoming warrior upgrade. They can research for us, we can cover luxes for them . That would save us both money and benefit us the most when it's -time.

 

[Own]

I haven't looked at the previous 5 pages, but are we gonna pick a friend and decide who should research what tech then trade with eachother?