Department of Turnplay

[PrinceMyshkin]

I've never played a turnset so I don't know the mechanics but I'm betting the gold goes "flush" at the end of the turn. In the regular diplo screen there's always someone there to accept here we have to keep mental track of what we've offered so as to not get into negative numbers.

Great job on the numbers Prince. It certainly helps to know the deadlines.

Thanks for that reply, I was caught up in a moment of thought. I'm not used to crunching the numbers in my games, so I'm trying to figure this out as the turn is open. I think the main observation I can make is our gpt is going to be pretty low if we stay WLTKD for so long. Losing ~600 gold to try to get the GLib and fail is not going to be good for the partenership. So I'm thinking of skipping that number crunching and moving the turn along to free up more gold and let the FP complete then try for the GLib on the later schedule. I'll be ready to pick up my share of that by the next turn, as I've got to read through everything again a little more carefully. It might just be better to send me a message asking what you want me to calculate bluntly.

I'll get Sabre's tech list form the Babes to see how we can work them into a false sence of security. I'm concerned they'll turn a pre-build into the Great Lib the moment they think they're getting played so we'll have to make it good.

This thought just occured to me. If Saber has prepared for this possibility with a pre-build or two, then they could flip the switch any turn they want. Make a contact, grab Republic and construction, switch gov't.s and throw down the Great Wall with a GA in no time. They are definitely going to be upset, and I don't think galley's full of MW's will help the Babes. Have you noticed in Chamnix's avatar that he is "Behind the Wall." I wasn't at CFC when the last game was played, but in my first COTM, Chamnix took the time to congratulate me on completing the game and then helped with a thoughtful reply about how the scoring works. so you understand even though I don't know him personally, I rather like him. I don't know why we don't move this along for us and the Babes by giving Saber a break and having them join us in a three-way partnership defensive pact against the growing threat. As long as GONG doesn't break any deals is the main thing, but for the Balance of Power concept, do the Babes want to face Saber and the other bloc. If the partnership is already concerned with the fast-teching bloc of Free and Council, why not forget old grudges from the last game and play the new MTDG from a more realistic perspective? Cut Saber a deal for math and include them in a defensive/non-aggression pact with us vs. Free and Council. It's really none of my business, I guess, if people want to make this personal and we guarantee no deals will be broken, just thought you might want to think about it and bring it up for discussion as a possibility with the Babes. I've read the diplo discussions thoroughly many times, but it's pretty hard reading between the lines. We've got the growth and the tech and it will leave Saber unconcerned and let us complete the GL in time. Sipahi's aren't much better than knights, except allowing for a later GA. They only have 3-defense on landing. Longbows are cheaper and will win more battles, and if the Babes have horses they can slaughter stacks pretty easy. Even a great military mind is going to need the late IA battle techs to really punch someone out. Sorry for being long-winded here. I think allowing FP to complete now allowing more gold for the parnership is the best thing and still have the GL on schedule on turn 112. I'll be checking replies until I end turn if you want us to stay in WLTKD to meet the earlier schedule.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

As long as you send it accepted it should go through. I would rather give them some gpt, as lump sum gold is more valuable, maybe we can send them the appropriate amount of gpt along with the 69 gold? Like 4 gpt I guess, and send the other lump sum difference next turn. If they dont like the gpt, we can blame it on the Prince! Would you be ok with that?

Of course, kc. I've already hit send though should I also send the gpt to make up the difference, say 4-gpt and they owe us nothing or 8-gold off of the tech-swap?

 

[killercane]

Sure, you can, if ya want.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Of course, kc. I've already hit send though should I also send the gpt to make up the difference, say 4-gpt and they owe us nothing or 8-gold off of the tech-swap?

Ok, reading that snapped me back. I'm on it now. And your welcome to use the Prince as The Idiot any way you see fit. Expect turn to be passed soon and a report after some sleep.

 

[jb1964]

Prince, totally thought provoking.

If we could put together a 3v2 alliance with priority towards the Babes then we've put at least another team into a non-agression pact and can help add fuel to conflict between the factions.

This is brilliant. We need to expand on this topic. Hmmm, pull in Sabre, go after the Free/Council block, have underlying plans w/ Babe to take out Sabre, and maintain the long term pacts w/ Babe. Details, details, need details....

I'm going to be pretty busy this evening so Bugs, Cane, anyone wanting to chat up Whomper is welcome to do so.

BTW, one of the shortcomings of the gaming strategy is that everyone understands that there's going to be an ultimate winner. Each team will be trying to figure out at what point the partner becomes the enemy.

 

[RickFGS]

If we are going cultural vic we can cover all of the continent-island shores with units and win before we reach Marines/Flight, simple.

 

[RFHolloway]

If we are going cultural vic we can cover all of the continent-island shores with units and win before we reach Marines/Flight, simple.

How long before an enemy gets Marines/flight? I will run some numbers on when a culture win could be acheived.

Hey - we should go for the Glib anyway - we can always cascade to ToA.

My initial numbers show a win turn of at best around 240, assuming we use the ToA and feudalism, and pop rush Libs and Cats.

 

[RFHolloway]

Any speculation as to why the Korean Council built SoZ?

lack of horses and hence lack of a mobile unit? (we don't care we've got GS's)

 

[Daghdha]

If we are going cultural vic we can cover all of the continent-island shores with units and win before we reach Marines/Flight, simple.

Nothing prohibits this in the rule set so why not. It should only be a matter of turns and numbers if it is possible.
I haven't looked at a save 4 a while but have we started to build temples or do we go for the ToA? If 100K it is then this must be taken care of soon nicht wahr?

 

[jb1964]

I haven't looked at a save 4 a while but have we started to build temples or do we go for the ToA? If 100K it is then this must be taken care of soon nicht wahr?

Hey RF, how much of your "turn 240" calculations included culture doubling and how important is it to reducing the number of turns it takes us to get to 100k?

On another note, I think Prince is looking for a break from the turn playing. I could do it in a serious pinch but I'm not the guy you want here.

Lastly, and I'll post this in the Babe Diplo thread, Babe is absolutely not interested in helping Sabre in any way shape or form. So a 3v2 *Gong/Babe/Sabre vs. Council/Free) scenario is out.

 

[RFHolloway]

It assumes ToA so no culture doubling from temples, and really its working off some benchmarks I have for playing 100k games - If we go feudal an average increase of 10 points of CPT per turn is possible (i.e. moving from 120 cpt to 130 cpt the next turn) in republic where you are relying on cash rushing it is usually closer to 6-7 CPT. The culture doubling usually takes up the slack when your buildings start to become more expensive. If you want me to run the numbers I would need the number of cities having 1 Spt, 2 spt, 3 or more, and their current population. I would work off each city being maintained at 2fpt. the other thing I would need to check is what the effective happy cap is, (i.e. base plus luxes - do we have 2 or 3?)

Really though 240 is a feel for an acheivable target - if we went at it without any focus it could easily drift out to 260 to 270. The thing with a 100k victory is it is all about momentum, shaving 1 turn off when you are 25 turns out from victory is normally very hard once you have it rolling however the victory will come.

 

[killercane]

I have no doubt we can pop rush most of the temples by the end of the golden age in one fell swoop. It would be better to get the libraries probably though. We probably need to calculate temples + libes only, and then work in cathedrals into the calculations to figure out how many we would need/when we need em. It looks like the fast tech pace could be slowed with 2 main factions, and hopefully we can goad BABE into war with the other alliance. Im sure we can figure it out.

We just need to have enough workers for add in culture to get the libraries done quickly. We will need to be in republic to actually finance some research with the 100 gpt maintenance.

 

[RFHolloway]

Good thing is we can switch between feudalism for pop rushing and republic for cash. The 50 gpt saving on temple maintainance is one reason why I prefer ToA to hand built libraries (the other reason is that they are instant in new cities which helps make up for the culture doubling lost). That saving is usually enough to be able to stick in feudalism, Without ToA it may be better to stick in republic or dash in and out for a quick bit of the whip.

Actually dashing in and out of anarchy to flit between governments sounds wonderfully in character for this team. Team Gong - Cultural anarchists!


If we get Glib then ToA is worthless, as you will get education too quickly and outside our control - so in my view its an either / or proposition.

In anycase we should be building the libraries as we will need them if we decide to tech by hand, we will just build them in more places for the culture.

 

[RickFGS]

Lets start pumping up some size 12 cities, like Graceland and We built This city (giving us 3 core cities + hill mined one) - go libs and then temples, change to republic just after we lose GA, kinda like Killerkane sugests.

We must build an effective sentry net along the map also.

 

[killercane]

So Rick, do you have the save?

 

[RickFGS]

Ill play tonight, expect news here around 00:00 Greenwich time

 

[RickFGS]

Need input before sending the save.

Do we have any tech trades predicted for the near future? Math or Horseback Riding, cause horseback takes us 4 turns but if we get math we can go Currency/Const next turn and capitalize this turn, since Council is already in Feud, i dont want to waste a turn...

 

[killercane]

Research should be off, BABE is sending us the other techs including math. Dont pop the huts! Dont pop the huts! Dont pop the huts!

 

[jb1964]

If you got the save it should have come with techs. Did it?

Also we owe the Babes 81g. Since we have a new turn player we can explain the lack of payment on the change if it's already happened.

Ya, don't pop the huts until we get everything up to Currency and Construction.

 

[jb1964]

I see that the turnplay log seems to be morphing into the Department of turnplay but I'm still more comfortable posting here so here it is....

First, and most important, our fishing crew had to end the day when we caught our limit of walley out of lake Erie. Great fun, except except when I punctured my hand cleaning fish.

The Babes are sending Math next turn so we should be set to pop the huts. Do we want to pop both no matter what or do we want to hold off on the second if our first hut does not give a tech?

The Babes are considering the value of their map. Maybe we could ask for screen shots of what the seas look like and let them keep their territory a mystery.

The GLib...if Sabre gets the GLib I think they would burn it to the ground before they would let the Babes capture it.