Daghdha
Absent Minded
Wotan asked me when we want feud. My reply was, send it next turn. If no one disagrees that'll be it. He also told me the ETA on Chiv is 10 turns and that we'll get it whenever we want.
Department of Turnplay
- Thread starter Daghdha
- Start date
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
10 turns? Care to explain why the heck it's going to take them 10 friggin' turns?
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Two questions:
I know this is a banned exploit for XOTMs, so I'm assuming that's the case here... but is it banned for MTDGs to add workers to cities for the express purpose of pop-rushing, and if not, are we considering setting up worker pumps to do that?
Secondly, because we are getting the GLib, does that mean we are avoiding Education for as long as possible? Uni's would be a big help to our culture rush...
I know this is a banned exploit for XOTMs, so I'm assuming that's the case here... but is it banned for MTDGs to add workers to cities for the express purpose of pop-rushing, and if not, are we considering setting up worker pumps to do that?
Secondly, because we are getting the GLib, does that mean we are avoiding Education for as long as possible? Uni's would be a big help to our culture rush...
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Dunno, my guess is they wanna keep building MW's and then up them with the cash saved on fart-speed research.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
This is a good question.... and we do need to discuss our path forward....
The GLib will give us the lower tier techs that the FC-axis (Free/Council), a.k.a. Axis of Dirtbags, appears to have been researching. Reportedly they've been cooperating for a long time and when we entered the MidAges w/ them they did not have Mono. Therefore, the assumption is that they've made a dash to Cavalry.
There are few paths forward...
1) Wait for the F/C Axis to research to Education for us and save the cash or,
2) make our own dash w/ the Babes to Astro so we can participate in trouncing the competition.
Right now we can speculate as to what our path forward should be but we're really waiting to see if we do get the GLib and what techs fall our way from that.
This would have been the turn we got the GLib had we not paused to build a Lib. From a risk reward point of view I don't think it was worth it but if it pays out then it's these bits that help set us apart from the rest of the rabble. I would imagine that the Pyramids boosting our population and setting us into a GA made the actual risks much smaller that I'm imagining. We shall all see.
Do we already have contact with any other team than the Babes ? Without any other contact we will not get any techs from the GLib.
I think we should do our own research with the Babes. We do not know when we get another contact, so the GLib becomes active.
I think we should do our own research with the Babes. We do not know when we get another contact, so the GLib becomes active.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
We don't have contact with any other team and we're keeping it that way for now. We had thought that the FC axis was so far ahead that by delaying contact the GLib could give us techs beyond Education. But it's obvious that they're not as advanced as feared and have gone down the lower tier.
We also don't want to accept Education from anyone until the GLib's utility is at an end.
What we knew when we're researching Mono and the Babes researched Feud was this...
Sabre is hopelessly in the dark ages and is our biggest concern for building the GLib in the next turn or two. There is nobody out there that needs this wonder more than they.
Free & Council are allied and have gone down the path towards Mil Trad. They both lacked Mono and it's time we got an update from the Babes on that. When we find they have Mono then that's a very good sign they've completed Mil. Trad.
Us & the Babes... well, how we proceed w/ these lovlies depends on if we bag the GLib and subsequently what we see as being in our best interests.
Do we technically abandon the Babes to fight it out w/ the FC axis and turn into isolationists or do we go full steam ahead to tackle the other teams head on until we're left in this world w/ just the Babes? The reality is that we'll be somewhere in the middle as long as that fence-riding strategy isn't fatal.
If I was king I would help the Babes take Sabre first not because it's the smart thing but because it will slow them down. As they consume Sabre the FC axis will be plugging along and eventually get the ability to visit the Babe & Gong shores. The FC Axis might decide to attack the new Babe lands as yet an even easier target to gain territory because conquered lands will be hard to hold.
I would like to have joined w/ Sabre to take on the FC axis and then toss Sabre from the troika but the Babes won't have it. They fear Sabre mightily and are all for attacking them while they're weak and stupid (from a tech standpiont).
As the wars over the ocean wage, and we hope it's a pitched battle, we'll continue to grow culturally dominate.
killercane
Deity
Why in the heck did we speed to monotheism then? They wanted mono "asap" and we spared no expense to essentially do it in 4 turns. This deserves some diplomatic attention imo but again, I really wouldnt want to rock the boat as we are going to whip all this culture.
I thought this too, but we can receive contacts from the BABEs at any time (contacts available at Mapmaking for this game).
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Do the Babes actually know what techs Free/Council have or are they just taking their word for it? IIRC from my one previous Civ multiplayer game, the trading screen doesn't show what techs the other human civs have...
If our ultimate goal is a 100k culture rush, I'd think the 4cpt from unis would be pretty important, perhaps important enough to rush ahead to Education. Just going off the one recent screenshot I saw of our island (I haven't looked at a save yet), it seemed like we we're building a lot of temples and libraries still, so we may not be quite ready to build unis yet. Still...
Offhand I tend to go for a modified isolationistic tactic. I can see bad things happening if there are 4 more or less strong human teams left alive that can ally against us if we are near a culture victory. With that in mind, embroiling the world in wars of attrition can only help us. But not letting our hands get too dirty, too fast, while slightly cowardly can only be good for our chosen VC.
I understand that Astronomy, etc will help to get our forces onto another island to help the Babes, but it seems like our best interest is to slooowly aid the Babes militarily while concentrating on culture at home.
jb1964 said:
If our ultimate goal is a 100k culture rush, I'd think the 4cpt from unis would be pretty important, perhaps important enough to rush ahead to Education. Just going off the one recent screenshot I saw of our island (I haven't looked at a save yet), it seemed like we we're building a lot of temples and libraries still, so we may not be quite ready to build unis yet. Still...
jb1964 said:
Offhand I tend to go for a modified isolationistic tactic. I can see bad things happening if there are 4 more or less strong human teams left alive that can ally against us if we are near a culture victory. With that in mind, embroiling the world in wars of attrition can only help us. But not letting our hands get too dirty, too fast, while slightly cowardly
can only be good for our chosen VC. I understand that Astronomy, etc will help to get our forces onto another island to help the Babes, but it seems like our best interest is to slooowly aid the Babes militarily while concentrating on culture at home.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
Well, we're taking their word for it. But they can see what techs they can offer to them in the trade screen so it does tell them, to a point where they are technologically.
You're correct that we're not ready for Unis yet. We have temples and Libs to rush first and that's in the offing.
Your assessment and suggestion of the modified isolationistic tactic is exactly correct. We want war, just not 4v1.
And cowardice doesn't enter into it. We don't fight wars we don't need to.
killercane
Deity
You can calculate what they have by looking at the tech cost manually. If its cheaper than it should be they have it! If its double cheap, then 2 civs have it and you can figure out which two.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
You can calculate what they have by looking at the tech cost manually. If its cheaper than it should be they have it! If its double cheap, then 2 civs have it and you can figure out which two.
Ahh, good point. Does CivAssist reflect the modified beaker costs if multiple civs have a tech or do we have to do it the old-fashioned way?
Absolutely, that is wisdom. My comment meant tongue-in-cheek only.
killercane
Deity
I dont remember I think it does, I just screwed up CA2 on my comp getting rid of some viruses the wife downloaded. Reinstalled .NET and CA2 and still it gives an error. I dont know what the problem is. You want to volunteer to be CA2 picture taker when the save comes in, Othniel? It would be nice to see the culture rise better than the game displays it.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Yep, I can post the screenies. Any particular ones you want besides the culture tab which, IIRC, shows our per turn culture?
Also, I'm assuming I should take the screenshots after we play our next turn, but if otherwise let me know...
Also, I'm assuming I should take the screenshots after we play our next turn, but if otherwise let me know...
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Wotan has confirmed that they'll take 10 to save cash and build MW's for upping. I guess getting mono asap ment they could start on chiv asap and the sooner the better from a speed/cost ratio point of view.killer said:
The modded isolationist strat outlined is hereby agreed on. A dragged out war in the trenches serves us well. Let's swing some swords but not too many and not to furiously
Yes, but they would have to sell our contact in that case. As long as they don't do that we should not get any contacts through them. Or is that what you mean by saying we could get contacts through them at any time ? I do not see any reason for them to sell their private Gong Show to others. Question is whether we want to use the GLib. I see it more as a takeaway from the others especially Saber. I would be for selfresearch with the Babes.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
This is the way I imagine things transpiring. When it best suits us, we and Babe, if needed, they can provide us contacts for the FC-Axis to receive the free techs along the lower tier. The value of these contacts will be taken into account as we go.
We could, in theory, just sit on GLib and wait for as long as possible to get the largest cascade of techs possible, however, there are flaws w/ that tactic and large risks.
We will be moving forward in research w/ the Babes along the upper tier towards Astro and beyond. The pace will be situational. I think we want to go quickly to Astro, foment war or throw fuel on any wars that are in progress, and then crawl along as we amass culture.
At some point the Babes should come to the conclusion that we will need to be dealt with sooner than later and our treaty w/ them is not working in their interest.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
Turn 111 has been in for some time and I have not seen any rumblings in the MP threads, here, in my PM box or on IM that say that the GLib is gone. So it appears we are one (1!) rotation from bagging the GLib.
This is going to be very kewl and nervewracking few days.
This is going to be very kewl and nervewracking few days.
killercane
Deity
Indeed. It is a bit of strategery on our our/BABEs part when we want to take the tech jump. If we do it now, FreeCouncil might not share techs. If we do it later, we may have wasted a chance to get to astro and wreck on some people. Some intel would go a long way but we depend on BABEs for that.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Correct me if I'm too dumb, but when we pop GLib the Dirtbags will see and stop trading techs asap.
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