desert fatigue

[Mr. Dictator]

would it be too much to make it were early units, and some modern ones, take damage if they stay in deserts for too long.

that is one of the reasons Egypt was a peaceful nation for so long.

 

[Metacomet]

And then create desert specific units. That's a nice idea.

 

[Packer-Backer]

I think you should select/un-select disease from jungles, marshes, and food plaines and enable fatigue from desert and other terrains. So I like the idea of desert fatigue and units with desert fatigues. Maybe you should be able to change camoflage of units to disable disease from jungles and desert fatigue with proper desert fatigues on.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

yeah, but it wouldnt be the same
dont think i like the idea of changing camo, but then again i havent tryed anything like that
also i was thinking of giving the desert a movement cost of 2, is that about right?

 

[Packer-Backer]

Definently, desert does take a LOT longer to cross than grasslands or plains. And about the desert fatigue thing, would you make that slow death like lossing one HP than another and then dead. And I think that is what should happen when units die in jungles, they should catch disease and slowly die unless they leave the jungle.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

yes like that, and i also think that after a unit leaves a jungle there is a chance that any unit he comes in contact with may get the disease, but i wouldnt hold my breathe because even i think that idea is too radical.

 

[Packer-Backer]

I think they should make disease more complicated. Like how about if you stay in a jungle you catch a disease and much leave jungle in three turns or else other units can catche your disease. And maybe if you don't leave jungle within ten turns you can't get cure your disease but still can fight and move until you die. Maybe if you discover sanitation you can leave jungle in five turns to avoid infecting other units and fifteen turns to leave jungle or definently die. This sounds too complicated event to me and I wrote it!

Here it is simplified:
Catching disease: random
Allowing infection of disease: if not out of jungle in three turns - 5 with Sanitation
Definent death from disease: ten turns without leaving jungle - 15 with Sanitation
Cured of disease w/Sanitation: entering a city with a hospital 1 in 3 chance of being cured

Maybe by my next post I'll understand my own idea!

 

[Mr. Dictator]

i hope you do b-cause i half get it now.

 

[Packer-Backer]

Okay Mr Dictator, my mind is clear now so I can explain it now.

If a unit spends enough time in a jungle it will catch disease and if it doesn't leave jungle, not just the original square but every single jungle square, within three turns that unit can spread disease. If a unit spends more than one turn in the same square as the diseases unit that unit has a one in three chance of catching disease although from then on the unit just infected cannot spread disease just to simplify. If the diseased unit stays in jungle for ten turns it will definently die but still can fight, pillage, and move. If a worker or settler catches disease they can rejoin a city but will then spread disease there. Once Sanitation is discovered being able to spread disease is increased to five turns and definently dieing is increased to fifteen turns. If a diseased unit left the jungle after the number of turns it takes to definently die, the unit in question can enter a city and fortify and within three turns or if the unit dies before that unit has a one in three chance of being cured and regaining only one HP. But if a diseased unit is not cured and stays in the city after three turns it cannot be cured and will start spreading disease in the city.

For deserts I think it should be much more simple, if a unit stays in desert too long it will be fatigued and will lose one HP and another and this continues until dead. And I think in the terrain rule changing part of the editor you should be allowed to add/take away disease from other terrain and changed the chance of catching disease. I hope you can understand it now, I hope that didn't sound sarcarstic.

 

[Xen]

an interesting idea- and I dont think it would be to hard to think up units for nations who were succesful in the desert areas- Rome for instance had a special branch of cavalry known as "Dromedaria", or camal riders... and as we all know, the Romans had a good number of victories in the area... while the crusaders, who lacked camels, or any training, and preperation for the climate of the middle east, were slauterd...

 

[Packer-Backer]

How much do you know about ancient and medieval cavalry, Xen?Like maybe only Guerillas are resistant without any special camo to disease and so you would have to build special paratroopers, marines, and infantry suitable for jungles and deserts. Ansar Warriors, Sipahis, War Chariots, and Numidian Mercenaries are resistant to desert fatigue without camo also. And besides the resistance to deserts and jungles the special infantry and marines would function as normal but you can't send a tank straight from the north pole down to the equator to fight in the jungles.

If only we could mod things like this, maybe Civ4...or Civ 3: Desert Fatigue followed a year later by Civ3: Jungle Camouflage.

 

[Iztvan]

Intresting thoughts...

I've been thinking about something similar, and what could be done in an Mod with the current system (face it, Conquests is finished, and the next expansion is far away...).

How about this: three new strategic resources, called "Desert training evnironment", "Arctic training evnironment" and "Tropical training evnironment".

Certain units would have upgrades (or alternative units) at the same tech level as the unit itself becomes available. These upgrades is exactly the same unit, only with the appropriate strategic resource.

Confused? Some examples of how it might work:

Desert now costs 2 movement points.
The tech Horseback Riding now enables 2 units: the ordinary horseman (req: Horses) and the Beduin horseman (req: Horses & Desert training conditions).
They have exactly the same cost stats (30shields, 2-1-2), but the Beduin horseman ignores the extra movement cost for deserts., just like the Keshik ignores mountains. So a Civ with experience in Desert fighting will most likely outmanouver their opponents.

Desert and Tundra now costs 2 movement points.
The techs Computers and Synthetic Fibers enables Mech Inf and Modern Armour as before - but now they also allow Arctic and Desert versions, requiering Arctic and Desert training conditions respectively, who ignore the move cost 2 of Tundra and Forest (Arctic version) and Desert (Desert version), respectively.

Replaceable parts allow Guerilla as before, but with "Tropical training conditions" you can build a Guerilla with (I'm undecided here) move 2 and ignore Jungle & forest terrain penalties or it could treat all terrain as roads like the conquistador.


All these units could be represented by the different animations in the C&C forum.

And the cool thing about the different "Training conditions" being strategic resources, is that you can "buy" them - think of it as joint excercises, etc. Teach youur allies how to fight on your home ground, in case you ever need them in the future - and hope that they won't betray you and use the training against you...

 

[Starving Poet]

You know, I was thinking of this today and I think instead of the strategic resources idea - what if we went to specialized barracks? Like only towns built in the desert would be able to create this desert barracks and therefore would be able to make Desert immune units. Same thing with Tundra. Now Jungles would be tricky, because once you settle on a Jungle, it's no longer a jungle - so the town would need to be situated, or have 'x' squares of jungle under its workable area. I've never modded myself, but I know that if there are building limitations for harbor cities and nuclear plants, then this might very well be possible.

 

[Iztvan]

Specialized barracks? Not a bad idea. As Civ3 stands today, it's impossible. Some people have posted in earlier threads about wanting buildings as requirements for units, like stables required for mounted troops.

Perhaps something like this:
Barracks: Veteran Foot units
Stables: Veteran mounted units
??: Veteran mechanised units

and if the city building the unit has a type of "unhospitable terrain" in it's City radius, the unit is immune/resistand to the adverse conditions of that terrain if possible.

 

[yoshi]

This health-reducing Desert idea is pretty cool.

Instead of hard-coding the health-loss feature into the Desert Terrain, you might as well just add a Terrain flag like, "Reduces Health." Any unit on this terrain loses x amount of health per turn.

That way you could give this feature to any terrain you like. For instance, to much time spent in northern regions (Glacier) results in loss of health.

There shuld also be exceptions so I would suggest that you add a unit flag like, "Ignore Harsh Terrain." This would allow certain 'special' units to be unaffected. For instance, a North African UU would have this flag thus giving them an advantage in Desert areas of the map.

An example of a scenario application would be if you wanted to add a 'Mine Field' terrain type to a modern war scenario.


If you're interested in giving Terrain a bigger role in Civ3 then I suggest to check out this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=65557&goto=newpost