wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
Damn, I never thought about that! Trading one food for 3 gold? MmmmmMMMmmm...
Design: Civics
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Maniac
Apolyton Sage
loki1232 said:
Even then it's 1 food and 3 commerce versus 1 hammer and 5 commerce. I'd know what to pick!
Btw I'm wondering about the Arete civic. For all the other religion-specific civics I feel they're really good to run. But Arete... only 20% increase in great people points? When you're running Caste System, you can usually get much more by a free specialist per city. The few extra gold you have to pay for troop is also easily compensated by all the extra gold and beakers you get from the extra specialists.
I'm also wondering about Ancient Forests. If a non-Fellowship civ conquers Fellowship land, they can still profit from the bonuses ancient forests give. I was therefore wondering, how about ancient forests standard giving only the usual +1 hammer, and only giving an extra food when you're running Guardian of Nature?
I'm not liking the Basic Care civic, especially as a starting civic. Fend for themselves seems much more natural a default. Why not simply remove the -1 dip modifier to Fend for themselves. Providing basic care to its people seems like something that a civ would need to research some techs to be able to do, and then it just becomes a watered down version of public healers philosophically.
- feydras
- feydras
Kael
Deity
feydras said:
The reason it is added is to give a "neutral" compassion option. Before it went in the you would start at 'Fend for Themselves' and all of the good civs would have a negative attitude modifier towards you.
There were 2 possible solutions, dont apply the fend for themselves modifier until later on (when the judging civ increased his compassion option or some other setting) or to add a 5th compassion option that wanst judged.
I didnt want to just make 'Fend for Themselves' neutral because that would only leave one "evil" compassion option and that was only available to veil civs.
So I like haveing the 5 with you starting in the middle. What could sue some improvement is what the 5 do and what they are called to distinguish them a bit from each other.
I've been playing the mod for awhile, have followed the discussion and understand your reasoning. It just seems to me that fend for themselves feels more like the natural law type state of affairs at game beginning. I like the -1 health, it fits well. It just doesn't seem evil so much as maybe a bit neglectful. I can see how a morally advanced civ would see this as callous -1 rep but enabling Basic care right from the getgo leaves a bad taste in my mouth. In our real world - just to get to basic care required major worker organizing during the industrial revolution.
Maybe the solution is adding another evil civic. Here are two ideas off the top of my head...
Flesh farming - with a bonus to production via allowing a building? and minuses to health and happiness. Possibly add some other benefit. The idea would be that you enslave the powerless (weak or strong) and farm them for body parts.
Eugenics - forced breeding. A more advanced form of Sacrifice the weak. Grants a Str promo to all new units. I wouldn't grant XP here as that is too boring and it also would give you more specialized troops when eugenics would do the opposite.
- feydras
Maybe the solution is adding another evil civic. Here are two ideas off the top of my head...
Flesh farming - with a bonus to production via allowing a building? and minuses to health and happiness. Possibly add some other benefit. The idea would be that you enslave the powerless (weak or strong) and farm them for body parts.
Eugenics - forced breeding. A more advanced form of Sacrifice the weak. Grants a Str promo to all new units. I wouldn't grant XP here as that is too boring and it also would give you more specialized troops when eugenics would do the opposite.
- feydras
Brightlance
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 21, 2006
- Messages
- 12
Is there a reason why crusaders cannot be build during a crusade...
I was about to launch a vast holy crusade across the whole world against the vile vale civs after getting fanaticism but then couldn't build crusaders as the state religion is scrapped.
I didn't mind losing the order hero, but was kind of annoyed that I couldn't use crusaders in a crusade
I was about to launch a vast holy crusade across the whole world against the vile vale civs after getting fanaticism but then couldn't build crusaders as the state religion is scrapped.
I didn't mind losing the order hero, but was kind of annoyed that I couldn't use crusaders in a crusade
loki1232
Loki
Gasp!!!!! A big mistake. You should be able to keep your state religion durign crusades!!!!!
Kael
Deity
Brightlance said:
Yeah, crusaders need renamed. They were named long ago before we had the crusdade civic. They require you to have the Order religion to be built, which crusade removed (bug, it will be fixed in the next version). Crusade allows you to build Flagbearers and Demagog's.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Nationhood gives +2 happy from barracks. This is a vanilla holdover, and doesn't quite fit, since there are frequent situations where cities won't want barracks--namely no applicable resources or it's specializing in a diferent unit type. The FfH barracks equivalent is the trainig yard, anyway, though I think it is cheaper. Maybe change it to +1 happy from TY, +1 from barracks?
Also, I think sac the weak was weakened a bit much. I used to use it fairly often when i could. But with a great people hit as well, just for a hurry possibility, it doesn't seem worthwhile anymore.
Also, I think sac the weak was weakened a bit much. I used to use it fairly often when i could. But with a great people hit as well, just for a hurry possibility, it doesn't seem worthwhile anymore.
Proposal.
A, "Help! We're being Oppressed," civic. It's game implementation would be as a rubber band mechanic. The only way to choose this civic is if your civ is doing badly...ie bottom 33% of civs. Think of it as the Endangered Civilizations Act.
It would give say +10% Research, +10% Production...or allow easy spy mechanics, or something along these lines.
Q: Why? The adventurer already does this, and it's a unit?
A: The AI would use the civic better than the unit, and also adventurers are fun...all civs should have them in a Fantasy game. Not just the loser civs.
A, "Help! We're being Oppressed," civic. It's game implementation would be as a rubber band mechanic. The only way to choose this civic is if your civ is doing badly...ie bottom 33% of civs. Think of it as the Endangered Civilizations Act.
It would give say +10% Research, +10% Production...or allow easy spy mechanics, or something along these lines.
Q: Why? The adventurer already does this, and it's a unit?
A: The AI would use the civic better than the unit, and also adventurers are fun...all civs should have them in a Fantasy game. Not just the loser civs.
Cool idea. It would be nice to have some sort of boost to failing civs to give them another fighting chance or at least forestall their eventual collapse.
Noone liked my two new civic proposals? Eugenics and Flesh farming? Ah, well, that's why i don't get paid as much as you guys
- feydras
Noone liked my two new civic proposals? Eugenics and Flesh farming? Ah, well, that's why i don't get paid as much as you guys
- feydras
Starship said:
Would be interesting in something along this lines.... would be more interesting if, whether as a civic implementation, or otherwise, you could, as a "losing" civ offer your civ as a perm alliance/vassal of another civ that gives you the bonuses instead. This way
As the "losing" civ you would have to follow the rules/tax & production orders of the controlling civ (or declare a civil war)...
I'm not really a fan of the revamped Sacrifice the weak civic, it just doesn't seem like it has enough of an upside to it. I understand the unhealthiness, that makes sense from a story POV but the benefits of a 10% cash influx and rush seem a little weak to me.
I agree that maybe the great people penalty is probably too much. If anything I would imagine a small great person or production bonus, as in sacrifice the weak...for the benefit of the strongest.
Just throwing the ideas out there
I agree that maybe the great people penalty is probably too much. If anything I would imagine a small great person or production bonus, as in sacrifice the weak...for the benefit of the strongest.
Just throwing the ideas out there
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Oldfrt said:
Warlords, judging from an old screen shot, has a vassal diplomacy option. I'm curious what it does.
Why is Public Healers only for Good Civs? And why is Protect the Meek NOT Good only? Seems to me that Protect the Meek sounds more good than public healers. Also, Public Healers allows other alignments to switch when they first discover medicine and get the popup to switch, but not afterwards (much like crusade was doing as well).
abman said:
Public Healers is available to everyone. Most good civs like you treating your people well, some evil civs appreciate you treating your people poorly.
One of the compassionate options is good only (order) and one of the non-compassionate options is evil only (veil).
loki1232
Loki
I think its a good idea to make public healers only good civs.
Maniac
Apolyton Sage
Re the City States civic. It offers -80% city distance maintenance, but has a penalty of -25% of all your gold. That's a huge penalty!
Eg currently I'm in a crazy game where my distance maintenance is double as much as my number of cities maintenance. But I'd still be losing money if I'd run City States.
So I'm wondering, how about reducing the penalty to -10% gold? Then I think it would still be rare circumstances where City States is better than the other civic you usually can have at the same time: God King.
Eg currently I'm in a crazy game where my distance maintenance is double as much as my number of cities maintenance. But I'd still be losing money if I'd run City States.
So I'm wondering, how about reducing the penalty to -10% gold? Then I think it would still be rare circumstances where City States is better than the other civic you usually can have at the same time: God King.
