Design: Civics

[Xyshi]

Im here to do a little complaining (sorry). I have never liked the fact that some civics, namely Republic and Foreign Trade, cause unhappiness in other civs...

I feel like i am forced into adopting those civics so that my cities can reach full potential.

Plus it almost always results in games full of foreign trade republics for me, which admittedly can help with the AI's mood towards you but i still would like to be able to choose the other civics without a negative happiness modifier. Its just not fun.

 

[Chalid]

I actually read the code for this today, and after rading the code i would like it if there were two civics in one row that had this penalty. The funny thing is that the penaly goes up the more civs (cities) have the according civic...

So there would be kind of fight between the two civics

 

[Nikis-Knight]

How about a cultural values civic called of Travel, that gives galleons +1 movement, harbors +2 happy, and city walls -1 happy? Would help setting up cities on archepelagio maps.

 

[Xyshi]

Civic battle would be much more interesting and realistic actually with the whole cold war thing and all (capitalism vs communism).

 

[Xuenay]

How about a cultural values civic called of Travel, that gives galleons +1 movement, harbors +2 happy, and city walls -1 happy? Would help setting up cities on archepelagio maps.

Decreased maintenance cost due to distance from capital too, perhaps. I like the flavor of that, and it'd help the problem with the Lanun (forced to spread out on the coastline) that was brought up in the other thread.

 

[DMN]

So there would be kind of fight between the two civics

It would make the game even harder for people who want to use other civics though. If you do this, the penalty for each of them should be lower than the current Republic/Foreign Trade penalty.

 

[Zurai]

I always thought the global unhappiness from the "goody two shoes" civics was inappropriate, myself. I'd rather it was unhappiness vs other civics. For example in vanilla, Emancipation should really only give unhappiness to civs running Slavery and maybe Serfdom (and conversely Slavery might give an unhappiness penalty or diplomatic penalty to Emancipation civs - the people there should be wanting to free to oppressed from other countries).

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I always thought the global unhappiness from the "goody two shoes" civics was inappropriate, myself. I'd rather it was unhappiness vs other civics. For example in vanilla, Emancipation should really only give unhappiness to civs running Slavery and maybe Serfdom (and conversely Slavery might give an unhappiness penalty or diplomatic penalty to Emancipation civs - the people there should be wanting to free to oppressed from other countries).

That wouldn't be an happiness penalty, i.e, unrest at your own civilization. Actually running slavery civic would reduce war weariness for your good enemies.

 

[Zurai]

That wouldn't be an happiness penalty, i.e, unrest at your own civilization.

Sure it would. People would be unhappy that you were on good diplomatic relations with a people that still practiced slavery.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

ah, well okay... but that'd need a different mechanic to make sense, as the emancipation ones are always on, even if the other civs are fighting you over it.

 

[uberfish]

I dislike how in late game wars your civic choices are almost dictated by the unhappiness penalties on some civics and the WW mods on others. It's much worse than regular Civ in this respect and I find it frustrating to play non-Spiritual civs.

The civic unhappiness penalties and WW are the main thing I really dislike in an otherwise great mod. They add nothing positive to the game experience as they just force the player to work around an indiscriminate penalty, and seem out of place in a medieval/fantasy setting.

 

[Starship]

I am curious about the rubberband mechanic? Are you still thinking of implementing one, and are you still planning on that being a unit?

I wanted to bump this suggestion...I'm playing a game right now, and getting thrashed. Due mostly to a bad starting position, and some rotten battle luck. Not complaining, I like playing the underdog, and trying to come back. I just need a little help for that to be feasible, and not reset. A rubberband civic only accessible to the dregs might increase playability.

Proposal.

A, "Help! We're being Oppressed," civic. Ok maybe not this name, but I'm sure you could come up with something. It's game implementation would be as a rubber band mechanic. The only way to choose this civic is if your civ is doing badly...ie bottom 33% of civs, pointwise. Think of it as the Endangered Civilizations Act.

It would give say +10% Research, +10% Production...or allow easy spy mechanics, or something along these lines.

 

[Kael]

I dislike how in late game wars your civic choices are almost dictated by the unhappiness penalties on some civics and the WW mods on others. It's much worse than regular Civ in this respect and I find it frustrating to play non-Spiritual civs.

The civic unhappiness penalties and WW are the main thing I really dislike in an otherwise great mod. They add nothing positive to the game experience as they just force the player to work around an indiscriminate penalty, and seem out of place in a medieval/fantasy setting.

What does everyone else think? Are these nessesary mechanics or should they be removed?

 

[Kael]

I am curious about the rubberband mechanic? Are you still thinking of implementing one, and are you still planning on that being a unit?

I wanted to bump this suggestion...I'm playing a game right now, and getting thrashed. Due mostly to a bad starting position, and some rotten battle luck. Not complaining, I like playing the underdog, and trying to come back. I just need a little help for that to be feasible, and not reset. A rubberband civic only accessible to the dregs might increase playability.

Proposal.

A, "Help! We're being Oppressed," civic. Ok maybe not this name, but I'm sure you could come up with something. It's game implementation would be as a rubber band mechanic. The only way to choose this civic is if your civ is doing badly...ie bottom 33% of civs, pointwise. Think of it as the Endangered Civilizations Act.

It would give say +10% Research, +10% Production...or allow easy spy mechanics, or something along these lines.

I still like the theory of a rubber band mechanic, but im not sold on any particular implementation yet.

I guess my core question is, would I rather the AI set upon and destroy weak players, or do I want to encourage them to stick around?

 

[Xuenay]

What does everyone else think? Are these nessesary mechanics or should they be removed?

They limit one's freedom of choice for the civic options, which is pretty unfun in my view. Then again, they can be used as weapons against other players, which is again fun. Tough call.

 

[snarko]

I still like the theory of a rubber band mechanic, but im not sold on any particular implementation yet.

I guess my core question is, would I rather the AI set upon and destroy weak players, or do I want to encourage them to stick around?

If you do include a rubber band mechanic be careful not to simply give it to the weakest civs. That can cause games where noone can get ahead, because the bottom is getting the bonus allowing them to catch up, making the former middle civs bottom allowing them to catch up and so on. Meaning how you're doing doesn't really matter unless you're doing exceptionally well or bad. It should only be given when really needed if at all.

Personally I use the weak to make myself more powerful, allowing me to take on the next in line. I think the AI should do the same. Either that or I less able to do it. Right now it's a too good strategy for the AI not to use it imo.

 

[eerr]

Personally I use the weak to make myself more powerful, allowing me to take on the next in line. I think the AI should do the same. Either that or I less able to do it. Right now it's a too good strategy for the AI not to use it imo.

"all" of the warlike civs should do that
(assuming nobody would gang up on them for it)

rubber band mechanic... if a civ is very friendly towards another civ (permenant alliance-ish if they were the same size)
it should give X% of it's beakers(in techs) to it's buddies,
especially if they're good civs

 

[fbarok]

The word "caste system" doesn't feel right... I think it would be better if it was called "Elitism" or something like this...

 

[TheJopa]

What does everyone else think? Are these nessesary mechanics or should they be removed?

Republic penalty shoud remain. But WW, trouble with it is that shooting firebals causes war wearines, as they count as killed units. That is why WW is so high later on. There are plenty of WW reducing civics and buildings anyway. (Military discipline, nationhood, dungeon...)

 

[Silmeran]

What does everyone else think? Are these nessesary mechanics or should they be removed?

yeah I think war weariness penalties is too high. If it's Dark Fantasy, dangerous and savage world, people must be ready to some fight.