Design: Heroes

[loki1232]

For the amurites i thought it would be cool if they got a spellcaster hero that was there for the entire game (if he lived). Basically, once they got the first religion tech they could build their spellcaster, and he'd be like an adept but stronger and with the heroic promotion. Then once they got the mage tech he'd automatically get sor II. When the amurites researched the archmage tech their hero would automatically get sor III.

Also, for malakim i had an idea for a Spellcaster riding an elephant. High strength and spellcasting obviously. But what makes him so cool is that whenever he kills a unit (with a spell or in normal combat) the space where the enemy died and all adjacent to it are revealed ofr the malakim player for 10 turns.

 

[loki1232]

I agree, but probably not an angel. Maybe the Hunt as the Fellowships 2nd hero.

What is the hunt? Sounds great and I think it should be the fellowship hero.

 

[loki1232]

I think that both Hyborem and Basium should be extra strong, because it would really stink if they died.

 

[loki1232]

Perhaps the avatars should require 3 of their mana? Its just that I think you would need to specialize your nodes to be able to get one of the final spells.

I think that the meshabber of Bis should also require a fire. I mean look at that aura.

 

[Kael]

Added Donal Lugh as the new Bannor hero.

 

[loki1232]

I have an idea for the Hippus Hero. What if he were a powerful mercenary cheif that could "summon" mercenaries that lasted for a turn. In addition to this he would get high movement. The super ability is that each time he died you got the opportunity to "buy him back" by paying a lot of gold. If you do he is reborn in your capital. If you choose no then any other opponenet may buy him. If no one buys him he is forever killed, but as long as any player has enough gold this guy will remain, getting bigger and bigger.

 

[loki1232]

For the other fellowship hero, maybe a Druid type with some uber spellcasting abilities specializing in creation, life, and nature magic.

 

[Chalid]

If anyone would like a hero named after them or someone close to them let me know what the name is and if you have a civilization you would prefer to go with. Im cool with it as long as it is a fantasy sounding name. I think Loki would be a good name for the Balseraph hero.

But Corlindale, Wilboman, Roland, Talchas, Lunargent and Chalid could all make good fantasy names. Let me know if you want them in.

Actually Chalid Astrakein was a character I played for some years in a Life Action Roleplaying Game. He might be a descent Hero as he was quite heroic.
He came from an Order of War Magicans which had the goal to uphold balance between the good and evil forces. The Order was loosley based on ancient Egypt Mythology worshipping an Snake Goddess and was split into two fractions that fought against each other merciless. The fraction Chalid was in held the opinion that upholding balance could only be archived by fighting the evil as humans more often create bad thing than good. The other fraction thought that most humans are good in their heart and so the balance can only be archieved by strenghten the evil.
Finally Chalid died when fighting together with his friends against superior forces of werewolve like creatures as he preferred to save two healers instead of himself.

The guy might be suitable for the sun-religion you are planning on the Light release or for the Malakim, and combine fighting power (I'd like to do the model) with some magic abilities.

 

[Kael]

Actually Chalid Astrakein was a character I played for some years in a Life Action Roleplaying Game. He might be a descent Hero as he was quite heroic.
He came from an Order of War Magicans which had the goal to uphold balance between the good and evil forces. The Order was loosley based on ancient Egypt Mythology worshipping an Snake Goddess and was split into two fractions that fought against each other merciless. The fraction Chalid was in held the opinion that upholding balance could only be archived by fighting the evil as humans more often create bad thing than good. The other fraction thought that most humans are good in their heart and so the balance can only be archieved by strenghten the evil.
Finally Chalid died when fighting together with his friends against superior forces of werewolve like creatures as he preferred to save two healers instead of himself.

The guy might be suitable for the sun-religion you are planning on the Light release or for the Malakim, and combine fighting power (I'd like to do the model) with some magic abilities.

Sounds good, Chalid Astrakein will be the Malakim hero. A warrior/caster just as you said.

 

[Chalid]

Another random thought: As heros are so valuable how about giving them something like a "second chance" or "Lucky" promotion at their creation. It should work like immortality but with a smaller chance say 25%. So if you loose a hero due to stupidity or bad luck you have a chance to get him back. On the other side 25% are small enough to not intentionally suicide him.

 

[Kael]

Another random thought: As heros are so valuable how about giving them something like a "second chance" or "Lucky" promotion at their creation. It should work like immortality but with a smaller chance say 25%. So if you loose a hero due to stupidity or bad luck you have a chance to get him back. On the other side 25% are small enough to not intentionally suicide him.

Heroes are a pretty improtant strategic consideration. I hate to have something like that tied to random chance. I don't think it would be very appealing for a player to plan to trap and kill an AI hero only to have him reappear.

 

[Chalid]

Hmm year you are right about that. I hadn't thought about having Heroes as primary enemies.. I fear its time to actually play another game instead of making building ^^

But if we take his promotions and XPs from him, it might actually add fun as the revived hero would not make much difference at least in that war. (Exception the Baron...)

 

[Corlindale]

Corlindale might be a fitting hero for the Elohim civilization. He's a pacifist mage I've been playing in various CRPG's.

I've been thinking a bit of how to fit him in lore-wise, and I thought he might be a former Amurite who'd abandoned his studies of magic in protest against its application in warfare, and subsequently joined the Elohim. Inspired by their teachings, he went so far as swearing a solemn oath of pacifism, and devoted his life to study of the kind of magic which would help him, and the Elohim, to this end.(I can write some extensive flavour text later)
I view Corlindale as somewhat of a trickster - he uses his magic to confound, annoy and discourage enemy attackers, but never resorts to violence(strength 0). He should have a useful array of spells to compensate for this. I browsed the spell lists for stuff that might fit him and be useful, and found these: Charm Person, spells of the dimensional sphere, Tremor, Entangle and the shadow sphere spells. Obviously he shouldn't have all of these, but at least invisibility and charm person I think would fit him well.

I also thought up a few unique custom spells for him:
1. Pacify - Chance of turning target military unit into a worker unit permanently(probably a pretty low % rating).
2. Disintegrate Weapons - Target military unit has its strength reduced by a % amount by the condition "unarmed". Condition is removed if the unit enters a friendly city with a barracks. Monks, animals and golems are immune to this.
3. Song of Peace - For the next turn, within the Elohim borders, no units can attack, neither friend or foe.

Given his peaceful nature, an enemy civ who slays him in cold blood should gain a reputation penalty with all good civs, possibly also a smaller one with neutral civs.

 

[Kael]

Corlindale might be a fitting hero for the Elohim civilization. He's a pacifist mage I've been playing in various CRPG's.

I've been thinking a bit of how to fit him in lore-wise, and I thought he might be a former Amurite who'd abandoned his studies of magic in protest against its application in warfare, and subsequently joined the Elohim. Inspired by their teachings, he went so far as swearing a solemn oath of pacifism, and devoted his life to study of the kind of magic which would help him, and the Elohim, to this end.(I can write some extensive flavour text later)
I view Corlindale as somewhat of a trickster - he uses his magic to confound, annoy and discourage enemy attackers, but never resorts to violence(strength 0). He should have a useful array of spells to compensate for this. I browsed the spell lists for stuff that might fit him and be useful, and found these: Charm Person, spells of the dimensional sphere, Tremor, Entangle and the shadow sphere spells. Obviously he shouldn't have all of these, but at least invisibility and charm person I think would fit him well.

Sounds awesome, and perfect for the Elohim. Sounds like he might be a good canidate for the Hope and Inspire spells too. We will probably give him base access to the spheres those spells are in and let the player decide where to upgrade him to see where his spells fall.

I also thought up a few unique custom spells for him:
1. Pacify - Chance of turning target military unit into a worker unit permanently(probably a pretty low % rating).

Great idea for a spell.

2. Disintegrate Weapons - Target military unit has its strength reduced by a % amount by the condition "unarmed". Condition is removed if the unit enters a friendly city with a barracks. Monks, animals and golems are immune to this.

What about having this as a "Rust" spell. I wonder if we shouldn't have it not effect arcane units too but maybe do actual damage to golems.

3. Song of Peace - For the next turn, within the Elohim borders, no units can attack, neither friend or foe.

I may steal this idea for a wonder. Its probably to powerful for a unit ability (unless it killed Corlindale when he did it). But a wonder that lasted for 10-20 turns might be cool.

Given his peaceful nature, an enemy civ who slays him in cold blood should gain a reputation penalty with all good civs, possibly also a smaller one with neutral civs.

I think this would be frustrating and confusing for players who are getting swamped by Elohim attackers and fight back just to have a reputation hit.

 

[Chalid]

I may steal this idea for a wonder. Its probably to powerful for a unit ability (unless it killed Corlindale when he did it). But a wonder that lasted for 10-20 turns might be cool.

Make it a project to get rid of the SDI (if you havent already gotten rid of it).
Actually we might incorporate several major spells that are only active for medium intervalls as projects.

 

[Lunargent]

I took Lunargent from mage the awakening. It's a name for one of the towers of magic, the lunargent thorn, governing fate and time magic. If it were to be used, it would be best used as a caster hero with the spheres of enchantment and metamagic. I need to think a bit more before I flesh him out, I still have Oblivion on the brain and must swtich gears a bit.

 

[Kael]

I have an idea for the Hippus Hero. What if he were a powerful mercenary cheif that could "summon" mercenaries that lasted for a turn. In addition to this he would get high movement. The super ability is that each time he died you got the opportunity to "buy him back" by paying a lot of gold. If you do he is reborn in your capital. If you choose no then any other opponenet may buy him. If no one buys him he is forever killed, but as long as any player has enough gold this guy will remain, getting bigger and bigger.

I like the idea of a mercenary hero. I think we will need to see how TheLopez's mercenary mod fits in and then develop a hero to work with it. I dont know if the hero will be a mercenary, hire mercenary's for cheap, or flip opponents mercenarys. But we will need something along these lines.

 

[Kael]

For the other fellowship hero, maybe a Druid type with some uber spellcasting abilities specializing in creation, life, and nature magic.

We need something special here. The elves will lose their chop bonus and are going to need something to help them recover. 0 Movement costs in forests?

 

[Corlindale]

A few more thought on Corlindale(yep, I think of myself a lot):

I see your point about song of peace. As I suggested it, one could actually be completely immortal by casting it continuously. I actually think your suggestion about Corlindale sacrificing himself to cast it is a good idea, sort of like sacrificing to GP's for a golden age, you sacrifice Corlindale for 20 turns of guaranteed peace.
This would be very powerful when used correctly, but would also have its drawbacks. When en "Era of Peace" is upon the Elohim lands, no military units may be trained, and no apocalypse wonders built(because it would be too easy to abuse the peace-time to construct a wonder to destroy the world while your enemies are powerless to stop it). I'm not sure whether Arcane units should be considered military for this purpose, since they also do non-wartime spells.
Because of these limitations, an Elohim civ would be very vulnerable once peacetime ended, and therefore it should be used carefully(or abused brutally, if you play against the Elohim).

Secondly, about the Rust spell. It occurs to me that most players will likely use this spell to soften up an enemy unit before ambushing it and taking it out, but the devout pacifist Corlindale would never sanction such usage of the spell. The purpose of it is to force enemies to retreat to their own lands and re-equip, buying time for the Elohim. There are two workarounds of this, as I see it: 1. Units with Rust condition cannot be attacked. The weakness of this is that it doesn't really make sense in realistic terms, and might even allow enemies to abuse the condition to travel across hostile territory. 2. Units with Rust condition can be attacked, but doing so will make you lose Corlindale, as he leaves the Elohim in horror of the misuse of his abilities. This would make the most sense realistically, but might be a bit annoying and hard to comprehend for players not familiar with all the lore.

 

[Kael]

A few more thought on Corlindale(yep, I think of myself a lot):

I see your point about song of peace. As I suggested it, one could actually be completely immortal by casting it continuously. I actually think your suggestion about Corlindale sacrificing himself to cast it is a good idea, sort of like sacrificing to GP's for a golden age, you sacrifice Corlindale for 20 turns of guaranteed peace.
This would be very powerful when used correctly, but would also have its drawbacks. When en "Era of Peace" is upon the Elohim lands, no military units may be trained, and no apocalypse wonders built(because it would be too easy to abuse the peace-time to construct a wonder to destroy the world while your enemies are powerless to stop it). I'm not sure whether Arcane units should be considered military for this purpose, since they also do non-wartime spells.
Because of these limitations, an Elohim civ would be very vulnerable once peacetime ended, and therefore it should be used carefully(or abused brutally, if you play against the Elohim).

Secondly, about the Rust spell. It occurs to me that most players will likely use this spell to soften up an enemy unit before ambushing it and taking it out, but the devout pacifist Corlindale would never sanction such usage of the spell. The purpose of it is to force enemies to retreat to their own lands and re-equip, buying time for the Elohim. There are two workarounds of this, as I see it: 1. Units with Rust condition cannot be attacked. The weakness of this is that it doesn't really make sense in realistic terms, and might even allow enemies to abuse the condition to travel across hostile territory. 2. Units with Rust condition can be attacked, but doing so will make you lose Corlindale, as he leaves the Elohim in horror of the misuse of his abilities. This would make the most sense realistically, but might be a bit annoying and hard to comprehend for players not familiar with all the lore.

Hard to say, especially since casting rust on a unit should cause a war. Otherwise its to easy to abuse by a player running around rusting all the ai's units during peacetime.

We could block Corlindales spells while his civ is at war. So Corlindale is only really useful if your civ is at peace. Im thinking that the peace spell shouldn't block attacks. Instead it should force peace bewteen the owning player and all other civs and cancel all defensive pacts with the owning player (so they don't get pulled right back in). It would be a get out of jail free card to allow the player to escape from a bad situation.