Design: Units

[QES]

A bunch of unit ideas:
The balseraph saboteuris replaced by a puppeteer unit. He gets the bonus of being able to take control of ppl's minds.
The calabim shadow unit--change to stalker and allow it to recieve vampirism early. I think that the calabim need another blood pet unit, what about a gaurd-thrall to replace pikemen?
is the pitch wagon available for barbarians? I think it would be a nice addition.
Bannor-Coast Guard. Replaces privateer and gets a +25% strength bonu when in your cultural borders.
maybe the Amurite Adept could be called "Apprentice?"
Troubador-Balseraph replacement for Horseman. Gives +1 culture, 1 happy if stationed in your cities. Doesn't stack.
Ballista-A lanun specific siege weapon that is designed for use on ships. Various abilities. 1. Can bombard adjacent rival cities while loaded on a ship. 2. Can "damage" (civ 3 style bombardment maybe) adjacent enemy ships.

I love all these ideas. Thrall-Pikeman seem the best.

Units as a whole:
Flying units are going to be added I assume at some point? And I also assume that "flying units" will be some civ or anothers particular specialty?

Some flying unit ideas
- Harpy
- Great Eagles
- Drake (mini-dragon, divine use only...dont want to make dragons 'common')
- Swarm of Bats (Calabim?) (Swarm promotion, see below)
- Roc (perhaps a civ could have "Big Bird" Hero?
- Gargoyle (Arcane? Or relgious in nature?) - funcitons as both ground and air
- Winged Men/Avianites line of units (Warrior etc replacement for flying civ?)
- Arcane Frigate (or another name, a "flying ship") - flotilla
- Gremlins (Flying shadow unit?) - functions as air and ground
- Genie/Djini - functions as both ground and air
- Angel/Demons (both air and ground)

Also, i think that perhaps some units should be made as "swarms". THese units would get the swarm promotion (no other way to get said promotion).

The swarm promotion would give the units 300 hp instead of 100. They would be generally low in strength, but they'd have an automatic 65% chance to disengage. These would be fodder units, designed to weaken the enmey. Perhaps each with another specific role.

- Swarm of Bats (Chaotic?)
- Swarm of Ants (Earth?)
- Swarm of Locusts (Creation?)
- Swarm of Bees (Law/Sun?)
- Swarm of Crabs (Water?)
- Swarm of Rats (Entropy?)
- Swarm of Spiders (Death?)
- Storm (summoned only - Metamagic/Nature?) "weather as swarm"

Thoughts?
-Qes

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Units can't function as ground as air. Maybe a paradrop sould be functionally the same...

 

[QES]

Units can't function as ground as air. Maybe a paradrop sould be functionally the same...

Helicopters do. I'm almost positive. They function as flying units but they dont need to "land" every turn, etc.

Or what IS the helicopter dynamic? Anyway, i was basically thinking that these "hybrid" units would use that mechanic. Just like ol Civ2.
-Qes

 

[Sureshot]

From what i remember of helicoptors, they just seem like Rangers, they could go on impassible terrain, but not water.

 

[QES]

From what i remember of helicoptors, they just seem like Rangers, they could go on impassible terrain, but not water.

Wouldnt it be possible to create a promotion called "flying" or something that would allow the same benefits, plus going on coastal waters? Sort of a "drown/impassible" combo? This would reflect the flying nature of the unit, but in that its still a unit that "Moves around" its still basically a ground unit. Perhaps give it bonuses against air or something. I'm generally of the belief that there is a method at our disposal to create the appropriate mechanics for a "hybrid" creature.
-Qes

 

[SchpailsMan]

IIRC, the main issue with ground-and-air-domain units is not about movement but rather about the logical headaches it would cause... basically, it would be a real pain to allow things as "logical" as having air units flying above ennemy ground units without them attacking each other.

 

[QES]

IIRC, the main issue with ground-and-air-domain units is not about movement but rather about the logical headaches it would cause... basically, it would be a real pain to allow things as "logical" as having air units flying above ennemy ground units without them attacking each other.

NONO! I agree with you. that is not what i was thinking.

As i understand the former mechanic, the "flying" is primarily in use as a movement and combat modifier idea. Strictly speaking, if there is an air unit in a square that is a "hybrid" then ground units MAY attack it. It "landed" there, so its distinctly attackable. In "practice" im basically saying that these "air/ground" hybrid units really mechanically are just GROUND units that have such wonderful mobility that we can call them Air units for flavor.

Flying: Promotion (for ground units)
Unit may enter impassible terrain, unit may enter coastal squares, unit has X bonus against non-archer units, unit may not use roads. (They fly they dont ride)

So if i had a unit that could move 6 squares, it'd move 6 squares and no more, despite whatever kind of road bonuses i had. It could "land" anywhere by going into "any" terrain, save ocean.....wheres it gonna land? - Not sure how this works with coastal. If it lands near an enemy unit, it CAN be attacked, because its on the ground. If there were some trick to give it the 'interception' power as well (this may be impossible) it'd be perfect.
Air/ground units are ground units with flavor-based high mobility.

The "airdrop" function i was thinking should be a bonus provided specifically by some buildings in more "earth-dwelling" cultures. Orcs and dwarves could use it, and i would call it "secret tunnels" In which they use to exit cities, but must (for secrecy) return through the normal "front door."

-Qes

 

[QES]

I'm not sure where this idea fits, so ill put it here.

The Seamine:

Spoiler :

The Seamine is a unit that can be summoned into a water square within two squres from the caster. I suspect it should only be allowed to be cast by someone like dwarves or some other sorts of "tinker-ers" perhaps its only divinely cast by said tinkerer races. These mines would function very similarly to the Grasping Vines that druids may cast on land. Instead, however, these little units would be put at sea, and be incredibly powerful, but ALWAYS die after combat. Hence the need to sink more. I see a limit on them as in something like 3 per caster able to place them. These would be useful for hedging bets agianst sea-bourne invasions. But only for "tinker-er" based races. These units, of course would have 0 movement. Maybe also they are always barbarian units? So ones own ships couldn't travel on them either? Mines are dangerous to everyone. I'd also suggest making them invisable, so that other units dont know of their existance until its too late - Unless of course some sort of "spoting" unit is in the ship, like a marksman, who can see them (assumedly from the crows nest).

Just an idea to tinker around with. Oh, and id suggest that blasting powder would be necessary to cast it.

-Qes

 

[SchpailsMan]

NONO! I agree with you. that is not what i was thinking.

As i understand the former mechanic, the "flying" is primarily in use as a movement and combat modifier idea. Strictly speaking, if there is an air unit in a square that is a "hybrid" then ground units MAY attack it. It "landed" there, so its distinctly attackable. In "practice" im basically saying that these "air/ground" hybrid units really mechanically are just GROUND units that have such wonderful mobility that we can call them Air units for flavor.

Flying: Promotion (for ground units)
Unit may enter impassible terrain, unit may enter coastal squares, unit has X bonus against non-archer units, unit may not use roads. (They fly they dont ride)

So if i had a unit that could move 6 squares, it'd move 6 squares and no more, despite whatever kind of road bonuses i had. It could "land" anywhere by going into "any" terrain, save ocean.....wheres it gonna land? - Not sure how this works with coastal. If it lands near an enemy unit, it CAN be attacked, because its on the ground. If there were some trick to give it the 'interception' power as well (this may be impossible) it'd be perfect.
Air/ground units are ground units with flavor-based high mobility.

The "airdrop" function i was thinking should be a bonus provided specifically by some buildings in more "earth-dwelling" cultures. Orcs and dwarves could use it, and i would call it "secret tunnels" In which they use to exit cities, but must (for secrecy) return through the normal "front door."

-Qes

Then I guess you're asking for an Helicopter (in fact, you mentionned that before) Okay, now I see your point, that exists in Vanilla so I guess it should feasible in FfH

 

[Kael]

NONO! I agree with you. that is not what i was thinking.

As i understand the former mechanic, the "flying" is primarily in use as a movement and combat modifier idea. Strictly speaking, if there is an air unit in a square that is a "hybrid" then ground units MAY attack it. It "landed" there, so its distinctly attackable. In "practice" im basically saying that these "air/ground" hybrid units really mechanically are just GROUND units that have such wonderful mobility that we can call them Air units for flavor.

Flying: Promotion (for ground units)
Unit may enter impassible terrain, unit may enter coastal squares, unit has X bonus against non-archer units, unit may not use roads. (They fly they dont ride)

So if i had a unit that could move 6 squares, it'd move 6 squares and no more, despite whatever kind of road bonuses i had. It could "land" anywhere by going into "any" terrain, save ocean.....wheres it gonna land? - Not sure how this works with coastal. If it lands near an enemy unit, it CAN be attacked, because its on the ground. If there were some trick to give it the 'interception' power as well (this may be impossible) it'd be perfect.
Air/ground units are ground units with flavor-based high mobility.

The "airdrop" function i was thinking should be a bonus provided specifically by some buildings in more "earth-dwelling" cultures. Orcs and dwarves could use it, and i would call it "secret tunnels" In which they use to exit cities, but must (for secrecy) return through the normal "front door."

-Qes

We havent done this just because a flying implementation like this will just make all of the things missing from it apparent. For example, why cant a flying dragon (or whatever) fly over a warrior instead of having to attack him?

In a true flying system he would be able to. We could use the mechanic you describe (what we call Water Walking) and give it to a unit along with the archer bonus and flat movement cost and say it flies. But I think that a halfway implementation like that will just leave players wanting more. So until we can do it right, we probably wont add a flying mechanic.

 

[QES]

We havent done this just because a flying implementation like this will just make all of the things missing from it apparent. For example, why cant a flying dragon (or whatever) fly over a warrior instead of having to attack him?

In a true flying system he would be able to. We could use the mechanic you describe (what we call Water Walking) and give it to a unit along with the archer bonus and flat movement cost and say it flies. But I think that a halfway implementation like that will just leave players wanting more. So until we can do it right, we probably wont add a flying mechanic.

Hm, I understand completely. Well, for the sake of the 12 year old boy within me, i hope you guys figure out a decent flying mechanic, cause flying is one of the best parts of fantasy worlds. Plus youd have a whole new spell - Flight.

Though, i thought of one question. Shadow units are invisable and all sneaky mcsneak. WHy do they HAVE to attack a unit, instead of passing right through it? Under this logic, they should also have the option right?

Yes, i know im being a poo, but it's a good question.
-Qes

 

[vorshlumpf]

Yes it is a good question. Since seeing the targetted spell user interface, I thought it would be appropriate for hidden units to have this interface when attacking, so they could choose their target. One choice could be 'none', for passing through.

- Niilo

 

[QES]

Yes it is a good question. Since seeing the targetted spell user interface, I thought it would be appropriate for hidden units to have this interface when attacking, so they could choose their target. One choice could be 'none', for passing through.

- Niilo

The way they work now, they choose the weakest....but since there IS a targeting interface...it might be useful/convienent way of getting shadow units to move into enemy-occupied zones, AND potentially for having flying units able to do the same. I Like the way you think Niilo.
-Qes

 

[loki1232]

A couple of units:
Sellswords. A hippus replacement for the pikemen. Has -50 hurry cost.
Squire. A hippus replacement for the macemen. Can be upgraded to knight.

Also an idea for a Doviello mechanic--Whenever a unit of their's with fear wins a battle, they get a Turncoat unit to symbolize the deserters joining the Doviello. Turncoats are medium strength.

Sheaim knight renamed to Dark Rider and given a first strike.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Also an idea for a Doviello mechanic--Whenever a unit of their's with fear wins a battle,

Can Dovellio units get fear? Other than if they take religion, I mean.

 

[loki1232]

Well then they should be able to!

 

[QES]

Well then they should be able to!

2 Questions. One, how does fear work on attack. Would the unit flee to another space? Cause as it works right now, i thought it was a stop-gap from units being ganged up on.

2) How do i get my "title" to change in this forum. It seems ive progressed from warlord to prince, but everyone else has really cool titles. I'd like to fix mine, but cannot find the means.

-Qes

 

[Silverkiss]

Fear only works on defending. And you can change your title in your user control panel.

 

[loki1232]

You guys are right, i just wanted a mechanic to show the doviello recruiting deserters from their enemies.

 

[QES]

Fear only works on defending. And you can change your title in your user control panel.

But where exactly, ive looked up and down the User CP
-Qes