Design: Units
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Well, I just meant whatever allows adepts to cast.
how about a new national unit
-A Demagog?
it functions as a unit to counter magic spamming people who try to use magic to avoid losing units. The demagog gains strength from magic.
possible mechanisms
-gains icombat per magic units in the surrounding area
-large bonus vs arcane, fire and water, and gains
-gains health(and a temp hp max increase) from magic spells cast in the area
-gains icombat from nearby dying magic users<(maybe permenant) and deafting magical units
(this would help prevent say, a fireball siege against a city, spamming them every turn)
-voracious promotion that allows the demagog to move faster, lost after defeating a (magic) unit and regained every 2 turns
-gains permenant hp after each kill of a magic user and loses permenant hp slowly over time
-A Demagog?
it functions as a unit to counter magic spamming people who try to use magic to avoid losing units. The demagog gains strength from magic.
possible mechanisms
-gains icombat per magic units in the surrounding area
-large bonus vs arcane, fire and water, and gains
-gains health(and a temp hp max increase) from magic spells cast in the area
-gains icombat from nearby dying magic users<(maybe permenant) and deafting magical units
(this would help prevent say, a fireball siege against a city, spamming them every turn)
-voracious promotion that allows the demagog to move faster, lost after defeating a (magic) unit and regained every 2 turns
-gains permenant hp after each kill of a magic user and loses permenant hp slowly over time
Kael
Deity
eerr said:
Those are some interesting mechanics. We were thinking about a witch hunter for the grigori that I may steal some of these ideas for.
Frozen-Vomit
Prince
Idea for a ashen veil unique unit (mainly because they are considered a weak the waekest religion by many players):
"Brainless Horde"
A cheap(er) tier3 melee unit that doesn't need any ressources. Starts with undead and cursed (or what the negative healing promotion is called).
The special thing: They can be pop rushed regardless of your civics and only cost half the population points when rushed (the same way as money does for mercenaries.)
It would be kind of like drafting the unit but more flavourful for an evil religion
"Brainless Horde"
A cheap(er) tier3 melee unit that doesn't need any ressources. Starts with undead and cursed (or what the negative healing promotion is called).
The special thing: They can be pop rushed regardless of your civics and only cost half the population points when rushed (the same way as money does for mercenaries.)
It would be kind of like drafting the unit but more flavourful for an evil religion
QES
Court Jester
@Frozen-Vomit
Ive been advocating something like that on a large scale for many more civs. But i agree it makes the most sense for ashen vale. Some undead unit that perhaps ONLY EVER COSTS 1 population, maybe tie it to "sacrifice the weak" civic, or something. But a tier3 (maybe even a teir4 non-national?) undead "mass" unit would be grand for the ashenvale. "Ashen Horde" sounds better, since the vale considers itself intellegent, it'd not want any hint of anything otherwise, even of their own servants.
-Qes
Ive been advocating something like that on a large scale for many more civs. But i agree it makes the most sense for ashen vale. Some undead unit that perhaps ONLY EVER COSTS 1 population, maybe tie it to "sacrifice the weak" civic, or something. But a tier3 (maybe even a teir4 non-national?) undead "mass" unit would be grand for the ashenvale. "Ashen Horde" sounds better, since the vale considers itself intellegent, it'd not want any hint of anything otherwise, even of their own servants.
-Qes
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Witch hunter for Grigori? Grigori have the best mages in the game, in my experience, what with the heroic adventurers. I'd give the Khazad a witch hunter type. Maybe requiring a resource that doesn't appear at the start, but can be discovered by mining.
Kael
Deity
Sareln said:
The calabim are a "switch gears" design. Although I wouldn't mind more vampire flavor in the early game (though I think we do a decent job with that) they are intentionally set to be play functionally different once vampires come onto the scene. Until that point they should be prepping for the vampires.
Although in general i prefer smooth functional transitions, I do like to mix in more dramtic cuts from time to time because they are interesting to play, and make it seem like a bigger reward. In this case it makes the vampire all the more impressive.
Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
about the GP vampire idea, that could work, you wouldn't get them all that often so it wouldnt cause too much weirdness. the total lack of vampires in the beginning makes them feel so unvampirey. or give them a weak vampire hero early on called the ancient one whos really weak
Kael said:
Fair enough... I've noticed the switching as well, though you can get along pretty well with a squad of Moroi. Perhaps more vamp-flavored units after vampires? To emphasize the post-vampiric feel of the Civ. Maybe have the Governor's Mansion serve as the keystone to the Calabim unit development (Unlocking things like Vampiric town patrols, cavalry, and such).
Kael
Deity
Nikis-Knight said:
Your probably right. The grigori were designed as the anti-magic because in world history the only indication that everyone was wrong about the gods was the fact that Luonnotar are completly uneffected by religious and arcane magic.
But your right, from a design persective the ability fits better in the Khazad.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
I was thinking silver, since it's traditionally anti-magic as well. But I don't wanna seem to be rehashing my design a unit entry. 
Kael
Deity
Nikis-Knight said:I was thinking silver, since it's traditionally anti-magic as well. But I don't wanna seem to be rehashing my design a unit entry.
The best part about joining the team, you can start sneaking in all your old ideas.
Maniac
Apolyton Sage
Kael said:
Luonnotar? Everybody wrong about the gods?
Kael
Deity
M@ni@c said:
The history extract explains most of it. In the D&D game the players didn't have access to the world history. D&D games allow a lot more detail and complexity than a strategy games, so i tended to muddy the religious waters a lot.
Very few religious folks, even priests of the various religions, didn't have spells. In fact at one point the Order started killing priests of their own religion who could perform miracles (once those few started having visions that differed from the churches mandates).
There were no "clerics" in my game. Instead players played all the other classes and those that revered a diety could gain different blessings specific to them, and occasional interventions in major situations.
The end result of this was that, although the religions (religion being the man made process of worshipping a god) were very specific the actual divine powers were very obscure to mortals. Some gods that were worshipped weren't real, some gods were real but called other names, some demons were worshiped, some mages started their own religions, etc etc.
The truth, as you may have gathered from the history extract, was that Junil and the rest aren't "gods" but angels created by the One and charged with protecting creation until the One returns. Read the extract for the full story.
The difference may be a minor thing. The "angels" certainly have godlike powers but they are imperfect creatures. As capable as mortals of making mistakes and failing at what they attempt.
The Luonnotar are an order that has figured out the truth. That the gods are just another form of imperfect being, although very powerful ones. They know about the One and worship him. But of course since the One is gone they don't get any spells.
As you can imagine all of the religions hated the Luonnotar, and the good and evil religions found them to be a common enemy. Because of this Luonnotar were very secretive. They had no magic, no special abilities, so they survived as an extremly secretive organization.
But a large group of them were captured. Pulled out into the streets of Alexandria they were found guilty of blashemy and sentanced to death. The priests though themselves clever, and planned and appropriate death. They tied the luonnotar to stocks in the square and cast pillar of fire. The column started from the sky and came down, surrounding the luonotar. It burnt the stocks, burnt off the ropes that held them, but left the luonnotar uninjured.
They walked out of that square and no one stood in their way.
In time the various churches overcame their surprise and attributed the immunity to witchcraft (as they commonly did), restarting their persecution. The luonnotar fled and eventually found protection with Cassiel and the grigori. The two groups weren't the same, the luonnotar were worshiping a god that wasnt in creation, and the grigori were following that gods mandate (to protect creation). Cassiel doesn't think the One wants worship (and he personally doesnt like those that dont rely on their own abilities) but he was good enough to protect the luonnotar and let them have their religion. The luonnotar needed all the allies they could get, and even if Cassiel didn't share their religion he was a loyal friend.
In a related story after the 21 first angels made creation, the One came into creation to review it and found it suitable (this was before the fall of Agares and the entrance of evil). The stone he stood on was later found and held as the most sacred artifact of the luonnotar. It is the Altar of the Luonnotar.
