Designing a "one city challenge" for Nobles' Club

[madscientist]

Also, in most OCCs the forests will all be cleared for production (Wonders) well before you get to the National Park. .

Actually this is generally not the case. Wonders are fairly easy to get in OCC as you are building fewer settlers/workers and your military can be reduced to the minimum. You do not need to chop to get them.

Forrests should be preserved for the health benefits and production. Later in the game you can decide whether to lumbermill/railroad them or go forrest preserves/national Park.

 

[King Pluto]

Forrests should be preserved for the health benefits and production. Later in the game you can decide whether to lumbermill/railroad them or go forrest preserves/national Park.

You and I have very different OCC strategies then

 

[Fleme]

I'd definitely put in AIs that will trade a lot. Since we will be missing some resources, we'll need to trade for them, therefore someone like Mansa would be much better than Toku for a OCC game.

By the way, JFleme, you have an awesome picture.

First of all I thank you. There's nothing quite like a fellow who appreciates Chairman Meow

As for Mansa - you don't really need a liberal tech trader / culture enthusiast or atleast you don't need to deliberately choose one. The fact of the matter is that when you're OCC'ing, the end game happens rather slow, which in turn leaves an opening for the AI to either win culture or go to space. Naturally these efforts can be sabotaged with proper planning and some cloak and dagger but all in all enemy leaders don't factor that much into an OCC. All you need is someone to dump your excess happy resources to for some extra health and some AI's at near tech parity.

OCC is always a diplomacy game and you need to tread lightly at every turn not to annoy any big dogs.

I'm not saying a no to Mansa for example but he's definitely a double-edged sword when it comes to OCC.

 

[naterator]

Do some math on the forum and you'll realize that it's not at all good

I'll take your word for it, but what would you put above it? It's not that i think it has some godly effect, for me, it's more about what it's up against, it just seems like most UB's in a OCC aren't great. At least the forum chips in every turn.

I'd put Seowon's up there, maybe shale plants, salons, and research institutes too. But happy-cap boosting ones are junk since GT is practically a given, health-cap can be nice but +2 is just +1 specialist, nice, but considering how many farms and windmills i'm building, 2 health is usually a drop in the bucket, i like the NP since it eliminates the expensive late-game health buildings. Maintenance reducing UB's are of course a joke, as are culture-based ones. Dike+ Feitora would be nice if you were stuck with coast, but i'd almost rather walk a few tiles inland at 4000bc than get stuck with water tiles on an OCC. Ger and Citadel would be nice if you had to go to war, but still probably not better than having something that helps you all game. producers would be ok, but i'd rather have my GPP incrementally boosted than my gold in an OCC.

 

[Fleme]

I agree that none of the UB's are really good when it comes to OCC because of how different everything plays out and with that logic the forum is actually a lot better than what it is in a regular game. (In those it's in my bottom 5 worst UB's)

I would go ahead and nominate the Research Institute and the Assembly Plant as good UB's, the first because of 2 favorable specialists (albeit late, but then again most OCC's do last beyond the point of RI's), the latter because of favorable specialist slots.

That said, I do agree that the crappiness of the Forum in terms of OCC are somewhat mitigated when comparing to a normal game but all in all that point is moot because neither AC or JC make for good OCC leaders.

Hmph, I guess if I had to list the top 5 UB's for an OCC for my particular tastes, I'd select the Research Institute, the Assembly Plant, the Salon, the Seowon and lastly a wildcard in form of the Baray.

 

[dalamb]

If there ever is an OCC series, would you just want the PHI and IND leaders, or are "crappy" ones worth considering just so people can learn to deal with the pain and agony?

 

[Fleme]

OCC is pain and agony regardless of the leader. That's why it pays off to make the series enjoyable.

OCC'ing Toku for exampleisn't essentially that much different (he even has a OCC/NP matching UB) but meh, I'd like to think people enjoy something that benefits their game rather than just playing for the sake of it.

 

[Fleme]

Double post fail

 

[naterator]

If there ever is an OCC series, would you just want the PHI and IND leaders, or are "crappy" ones worth considering just so people can learn to deal with the pain and agony?

If there were a whole OCC series, i guess eventually people might want a change, but i'd certainly start with some PHI, IND, SPI, or at least EXP. Playing OCC with IMP/ORG probably won't teach you much. Better to play a non-OCC with Sid as your leader if you want to learn about playing without traits.

Also, in most OCCs the forests will all be cleared for production (Wonders) well before you get to the National Park. The NP is great for eliminating health problems with limited resource access and a large pop that you won't want to whip often, but not for GPPs.

Just noticed that bit - Eliminating unhealthiness is exactly why it's great for GPP's. If you get a foody, farmable BFC, then health will eat a large amount of food that can otherwise be put towards specialists.
If you have enough food + some forests you can save a few for the free specialists, I have done it recently in a game where i had a bunch of farmed flood plains and needed the health more than the food. It's essentially a wash since +2 is about equal to +1 free specialist anyway. You lose the extra 1 from the farm for most of the game but gain the .5. I suspect that if you did the math, farming the square early would probably come out ahead still, but it's definitely possible to win an OCC with some forest preserves around.