Desperation point?

[capnvonbaron]

So here's the deal... I'm at war with poor petrol-less Peter, which means my destroyers and battleships have free reign to blockade his harbors and take out his frigates/SotLs/galleons/ironclads at will. They suffer the occasional blimp attack, but the destroyers are doing a pretty good job keeping those from being harmful at this point.

So I landed a small force of 5 machine guns, a couple of tanks, and a bunch of SEALs to walk up and down his sub-continent, pillaging and making a mess of the place. The naval blockade has been in place forever and he is feeling it. Out of nowhere, probably 20 frigs/SotLs/galleons just throw themselves upon a battleship/destroyer pair, and another 5 or 6 (and a 'clad or two) throw down on a stack of 1 missile cruiser and 3 destroyers. Obviously his fleet was obliterated, but why did he wait that long, and why did he do it anyways?

Has anyone else seen this type of behavior?

 

[Foamy7]

Hmmm. AI throwing huge stacks of obsolete units at you? I don't know that I've ever encountered that before.

You can account for it in one of 2 ways - either he decided that massing his naval power, though clearly outmatched, was a last-ditch effort to lift the blockade, or (and I do prefer the latter), the AI is artificially dumb.

 

[Fluxx]

Hmmm. AI throwing huge stacks of obsolete units at you? I don't know that I've ever encountered that before.

You can account for it in one of 2 ways - either he decided that massing his naval power, though clearly outmatched, was a last-ditch effort to lift the blockade, or (and I do prefer the latter), the AI is artificially dumb.

It is actually the former.
The AI is programmed to kill start attacking your units the moment you start ravaging his land.
AKA pillaging/blockading. There is like a certain thresshold, but then the AI starts attacking no matter the odds.

 

[Volapyk]

It is actually the former.
The AI is programmed to kill start attacking your units the moment you start ravaging his land.
AKA pillaging/blockading. There is like a certain thresshold, but then the AI starts attacking no matter the odds.

Oh, didn't know this, but that's actually pretty cool.

 

[capnvonbaron]

Well, to some degree it worked They killed the ship in the one stack that was on blockade (the other was set to "heal"), albeit at the cost of about 20 - 25 ships. Also provided me with a new GG He hasn't done that with my land army though, just his initial attack which succeeded in doing nothing.

Thats sort of a second question I had... he had a LOT more he could have thrown at my stack, which was: 5 MGs (mostly combat 2s, one combat 3, one woodsman2), 2 tanks (combat1/pinch and a warlord/combat3/pinch), and 5 SEALS (mostly guerilla2). I landed on a forested hill, so obviously the woodsman MG and guerilla SEALs tore up everything that came at them, but I got the impression that maybe after he expended a certain amount of force with only so much damage done, he called off the attacks in favor of preserving his forces?

 

[Mathew952]

I've had the Spanish do that to me. I had cannons, infantry, and machine guns all fortified in a city on a hill top. They managed to mow down HUGE stacks of enemy infantry and cavalry assaults.

BTW, one thing I thought was kind of odd about this is that it seems as though some leaders will become absolutely obsessed with a certain objective, trying to acheive it at all costs... eerily similar to real leaders.

Then, inspite of the more advanced, stronger units failing, what happens next? A last ditch effort, consisting of Conquistadors and longbows, mixed with a few cannon and infantry.

 

[Jedi_Otis]

Peter is an aggressive leader with a high attack courage rating, which means he's not squeamish about attacking at low odds. That's just how he rolls.

 

[6K Man]

I don't see that enough in my games. AI navies tend to run and hide and eventually vanish when I capture the city they're holed up in. Sure, they might die horribly against my navy, but you'd think they'd make an attempt to get to my Transports...

 

[Gliese 581]

You can really stack up some GG points at sea, especially if you have the great wall. The AI will often spam ships even if they're backwards. I had one game where SB had like 40-50 caravels when he didn't have Astronomy. My frigates did their best to harvest his fleet but was unsuccesful in completing the task before I destroyed him on land despite his territory being quite large.

 

[capnvonbaron]

I think I got two GGs in my blockade time around Peter in that game. I sank >150 frigates, around 100 SotLs, probably 50 caravels, and a few dozen ironclads. Eventually when my bombers/fighters started raining death around his countryside I noticed the streams trailed off due to all his towns, workshops, windmills and mines being demolished. Set Peter back a few centuries I surely did

 

[batavier]

Out of nowhere, probably 20 frigs/SotLs/galleons just throw themselves upon a battleship/destroyer pair.

How many of these were frigates/Sotl? Promotions? Coast bonus? You might have been lucky here.
I threw 10 frigates and then 10 galleons at a battleship and a destroyer and they killed them after all the frigates and 2 galleons died. All of them unpromoted and in the open ocean.

 

[Negator_UK]

This thread should be called "Vanishing Point"

 

[Tristan_C]

I had a Destroyer go from 10exp to 28exp overnight when an AI declared war on me and tried to land his army, which was transported by a huge stack of outdated wooden ships. He thought he was gonna be all sneaky, declaring war and landing 30 land units onto my unprotected island in one turn. I put a ss in the "funny pics" thread: View Post

 

[6K Man]

I had a Destroyer go from 10exp to 28exp overnight when an AI declared war on me and tried to land his army, which was transported by a huge stack of outdated wooden ships. He thought he was gonna be all sneaky, declaring war and landing 30 land units onto my unprotected island in one turn. I put a ss in the "funny pics" thread: View Post

Horrible AI tactic. Suiciding wooden ships against defending Destroyers is pointless - even with Blitz I'd never be able to take out more than a half dozen or so, accounting for having to move to attack. And it sounds like the AI could have effected a landing without needing to engage your ship.

Suiciding wooden ships against an attack force, on the other hand, is often better than meekly standing aside and letting the invader land an army.

 

[Derp]

This kind of thing is the reason I turned the battle animations off in my games. What put me over the edge was when I sent an invasion force of freshly drafted Tokugawa Riflemen to batter down a technologically backwards Shaka on another continent. I literally waited half an hour for Shaka to finish throwing his now obsolete units at me. His power rating went from middle of the pack to dead last without taking a single city

 

[beestar]

It is actually the former.
The AI is programmed to kill start attacking your units the moment you start ravaging his land.
AKA pillaging/blockading. There is like a certain thresshold, but then the AI starts attacking no matter the odds.

What, seriously?

I wish I knew this earlier! Normally I sit outside the AI city and bombard, because I don't want to pillage its land only to have to rebuild the land after conquest. In response, the AI sits in the city and refuses to come out to attack my units, which makes it more difficult to take the city.

You're saying that if I start pillaging land, the AI will throw itself at my stacks, perhaps resulting in a favourable matchup of AI macemen vs. my crossbowmen, or horse archers vs. my defending spearmen?

 

[Tristan_C]

Horrible AI tactic. Suiciding wooden ships against defending Destroyers is pointless - even with Blitz I'd never be able to take out more than a half dozen or so, accounting for having to move to attack. And it sounds like the AI could have effected a landing without needing to engage your ship.

Suiciding wooden ships against an attack force, on the other hand, is often better than meekly standing aside and letting the invader land an army.

It's actually not terrible AI; my cities were basically undefended, delicious, hi-tech plums, and he wanted to grab one at all costs using surprise and overwhelming (if low-tech) land power.

The situation was complicated. We were neutral with closed borders. If I preempted him and sunk his fleet, I would have taken worldwide diplomatic heat for being an aggressor (he was well-liked, as most AI are on King). I was forcing him to engage my destroyers by lining them around my island; his ships were too slow to maneuver around them and land troops in one turn. He would have had to declare war as he entered my borders, which would have obviously licensed me to use my sea power.

 

[Fluxx]

What, seriously?

I wish I knew this earlier! Normally I sit outside the AI city and bombard, because I don't want to pillage its land only to have to rebuild the land after conquest. In response, the AI sits in the city and refuses to come out to attack my units, which makes it more difficult to take the city.

You're saying that if I start pillaging land, the AI will throw itself at my stacks, perhaps resulting in a favourable matchup of AI macemen vs. my crossbowmen, or horse archers vs. my defending spearmen?

If you keep doing this over a period of time yes.
I noticed it happens more often the later you are in the game.
Start pillaging their important resources (iron f.e.) on a long term, or starving their cities tends to work.

It is unreliable though.

I think there is even a sid's hint that says something like:
'if a city is too well-defended start pillaging their land to fight a war of detrition, it might force your opponent to leave their fortress'.

 

[capnvonbaron]

How many of these were frigates/Sotl? Promotions? Coast bonus? You might have been lucky here.
I threw 10 frigates and then 10 galleons at a battleship and a destroyer and they killed them after all the frigates and 2 galleons died. All of them unpromoted and in the open ocean.

To be fair, the one destroyer/battleship duo was sunk, but they took out at least that many before it happened. Both were combat3s if I remember, although the destroyer might've been combat 4 as most of them were from previous fleet harvesting. I don't know what the promos were on his ships since they all died too fast, haha.

I was able to send back-up from another stack and keep the blockade going though, so no biggie. I find it kinda funny that Peter had completed the Apollo Program but still couldn't figure out how to make airplanes or even a metal canoe I think the island-wide blockade was helping though because I saw a destroyer of his later on so he must've traded for oil from someone.

This kind of thing is the reason I turned the battle animations off in my games. What put me over the edge was when I sent an invasion force of freshly drafted Tokugawa Riflemen to batter down a technologically backwards Shaka on another continent. I literally waited half an hour for Shaka to finish throwing his now obsolete units at me. His power rating went from middle of the pack to dead last without taking a single city

haha... yeah I landed a couple of tanks, SEALs, and a crapload of MGs. Petey's arty couldn't touch the MGs and the hills/forest defense bonus from the tile I landed on made it so I carved up his repulsion force of infantry and cossacks pretty good. I divided my landing force into two stacks and carved a swath of destruction right down the middle of his continent, taking out two iron mines, a uranium mine, and several food resources. Eventually I got to land-locked Moscow, bombed it with cruise missiles from the sea, and burnt it to the ground along with its precious apollo program. Never doubt the power of Guerilla3 SEALs

Needless to say Peter didn't talk to me for the rest of the game, lol