CiaranB123
That guy
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 409
Deth McBones Galactic Epic creation thread
- Thread starter Deth McBones
- Start date
Deth McBones
The Inconsistent Modder
Thank you very much Philadelphus! This kind of interest (especially since this is your 2nd post [Welcome to CFC!]) helps me focus on getting this done.
Most space mods I tried, with Space Opera by NavyDawg as an exception, kind of trivialized ground combat in favor of huge naval battles, which the AI just couldn't understand enough to provide a good competition, or had only terran planets to fight on, or (using the planet=resource concept on a land=space terrain) had just naval units (which got boring). Using my system the AI sees individual planets (especially moons of gas giants) as worth fighting over, and goes beserk landing troops (which is so fun!). Certain types of units are amphibious, and later space marines will be able to fly around orbital space with anti-grav packs once you discover cryo-cobalt anti-gravity engines. I think the amphibious flag makes the AI really want to attack, as I've seen invasions by singular units (on higher aggression levels, though). Okay, I am writing way too much....
As for the explanations, I was trying to pattern our own Solar System as a kind of "Old World," and I tried to pick the current countries or regions that were investing the most in space exploration, and that would eventually have interests in getting resources from space. That, and knowing that history repeats itself, I tried to get an "Age of Colonization" feel...in space! Most good sci-fi stories have a historical back-drop set in a sci-fi setting, such as the famous analogy of Star Trek being "Wagon train to the stars," Firefly being a "Space Western," and Star Wars being a kind of epic story along the lines of Beowulf, etc, etc.
Currently alpha-testing still has a bit of a "warring city-state" feel instead of an established-capital-city-that-is-a-hub-for-colonial-trade feel. So right now the Sol System is more like Ancient Greece and less like 1600s Europe. But perhaps that would be interesting, and the addition of easy-to-build defensive units may turn in-system fighting to more of a futile effort.
Philadelphus, consider yourself on the pre-beta test team!
And, though I appreciate your offer for help, it'll be easier if I do the arrows. They're not impossible, just tedious. And now, with Steph's editor I can see my work without having to boot up Civ every time I save a new science advisor background.
After I finish this I might release an "empty" scenario for those of you who want to add in your own space mod, like kind of a starter kit. It would be so cool to see space mods revived!
Thanks for the input!
Most space mods I tried, with Space Opera by NavyDawg as an exception, kind of trivialized ground combat in favor of huge naval battles, which the AI just couldn't understand enough to provide a good competition, or had only terran planets to fight on, or (using the planet=resource concept on a land=space terrain) had just naval units (which got boring). Using my system the AI sees individual planets (especially moons of gas giants) as worth fighting over, and goes beserk landing troops (which is so fun!). Certain types of units are amphibious, and later space marines will be able to fly around orbital space with anti-grav packs once you discover cryo-cobalt anti-gravity engines. I think the amphibious flag makes the AI really want to attack, as I've seen invasions by singular units (on higher aggression levels, though). Okay, I am writing way too much....
As for the explanations, I was trying to pattern our own Solar System as a kind of "Old World," and I tried to pick the current countries or regions that were investing the most in space exploration, and that would eventually have interests in getting resources from space. That, and knowing that history repeats itself, I tried to get an "Age of Colonization" feel...in space! Most good sci-fi stories have a historical back-drop set in a sci-fi setting, such as the famous analogy of Star Trek being "Wagon train to the stars," Firefly being a "Space Western," and Star Wars being a kind of epic story along the lines of Beowulf, etc, etc.
Currently alpha-testing still has a bit of a "warring city-state" feel instead of an established-capital-city-that-is-a-hub-for-colonial-trade feel. So right now the Sol System is more like Ancient Greece and less like 1600s Europe. But perhaps that would be interesting, and the addition of easy-to-build defensive units may turn in-system fighting to more of a futile effort.
Philadelphus, consider yourself on the pre-beta test team!
And, though I appreciate your offer for help, it'll be easier if I do the arrows. They're not impossible, just tedious. And now, with Steph's editor I can see my work without having to boot up Civ every time I save a new science advisor background.
After I finish this I might release an "empty" scenario for those of you who want to add in your own space mod, like kind of a starter kit. It would be so cool to see space mods revived!
Thanks for the input!
Philadelphus
Chieftain
Cool, thanks! I liked NavyDawg's Space Opera, so I'm looking forward to more in the same vein.
CiaranB123
That guy
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 409
Oh Deth I just remembered I'm at my Dads this weekend and he doesn't have Civ 3 but I could go on Monday and pre-beta test it then... would that be okay?
Deth McBones
The Inconsistent Modder
Oh, yeah, sure, anytime.
I am going to have it up late Saturday or Sunday anyway, so you won't miss much time compared to others anyway.
I am going to have it up late Saturday or Sunday anyway, so you won't miss much time compared to others anyway.
King Coltrane
King
im ready whenever!
Deth McBones
The Inconsistent Modder
Alright guys, the zip is uploading as I type. I know I promised a skeleton civpedia and unit line, but I ran out of time. I actually played a full game the other night, and now I believe I have fixed most of the glaring gameplay issues. I will PM the location to the three users on the list. Hope you guys enjoy it. I'll be updating it probably once or twice a week.
Philadelphus
Chieftain
Downloading as I type. I should have some time to look at it tomorrow, I need to get over the jetlag from DST right now.
CiaranB123
That guy
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 409
Downloading as I type now 
EDIT: 7 minutes remaining
EDIT2: YES! Downloaded!
EDIT: 7 minutes remaining
EDIT2: YES! Downloaded!
CiaranB123
That guy
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 409
Ok I've played some turns now.
One problem is that cities can't grow enough, there is not enough food.
The game goes REALLY fast. Not as in the good way. Well it is in the good way, but in a bad way too. It took me less than an hour to get to the second age, and I was looking at the tech trees and stuff for ages.
If war is declared then it is really hard because if your one city goes, it all goes.
You have put scenario search folder to ..\conquests\Galactic Epic, but most people put it in scenarios folder, and if you zip it then it all goes in one folder, so I would just put Galactic Epic as the search folder.
I think it is the mechatitan that upgrades to rocket artillery. So, I think 16.8.1 upgrades to 0.0.1 with bombard. You'll need to fix this.
I think this still might need to be done, but in the editor it shows that there are a few alien civs but they are not in the map.
Other than that, it is fun to play. The best part is when you send out a space transport and find really good city places. I'll have some screenshots of it up soon.
One problem is that cities can't grow enough, there is not enough food.
The game goes REALLY fast. Not as in the good way. Well it is in the good way, but in a bad way too. It took me less than an hour to get to the second age, and I was looking at the tech trees and stuff for ages.
If war is declared then it is really hard because if your one city goes, it all goes.
You have put scenario search folder to ..\conquests\Galactic Epic, but most people put it in scenarios folder, and if you zip it then it all goes in one folder, so I would just put Galactic Epic as the search folder.
I think it is the mechatitan that upgrades to rocket artillery. So, I think 16.8.1 upgrades to 0.0.1 with bombard. You'll need to fix this.
I think this still might need to be done, but in the editor it shows that there are a few alien civs but they are not in the map.
Other than that, it is fun to play. The best part is when you send out a space transport and find really good city places.
I'll have some screenshots of it up soon.
Deth McBones
The Inconsistent Modder
Ciaran,
Food production is limited for a reason. The AI usually goes nuts with units, and as each unit costs a population point, this cuts down on both units and city size. The "Old Colonies" are supposed to be jumping off points for more successful off-world colonies. Most of the Sol colonies are supposed to be at a disadvantage from the start. This is to force the AI to send out their colony landers to other systems. The AI also doesn't seem to build ANY irrigation, so they suffer as a result. As colony landers are auto-produced, this lack of food only really hinders the amount of units the AI can build which helps my next topic...
War. War never changes. And this is very true in the near-future. Often somebody wants your little colony because they think their little National Guardsman (warrior) can take on your forces, or because your little alliance gets attacked. Defending your colony is a very important task in the first couple of turns, because on a high enough difficulty, the AI sees you as easy pickings. Soon though, your stockpile of missiles makes direct attack in the Sol System quite messy, and once your outside colonies are providing you with income (and lasers!) your home system is quite comfortable. I am trying to think of a single powerful unit to pre-place in the colonies to stop a two-turn game, though, as I have played a few of those, and they are embarrassing. Most of those losses, however, were cases of AI cheating. Like I said before, no guarantee of balanced gameplay.
As for getting to the second age soon, that was intentional. If you give the civs less techs to start out with, those wars I've been talking about get pretty epic (and frustrating, and potentially disastrous). Just a few extra techs, (mostly the ones needed for freighters) and you have a colonization game instead of a fortress game. The second age is the main age for this mod, especially the first half of the second age. I might cut the speed down by making a bunch of techs untradeable, especially the last couple ones in the Solar age, and a few in the next age. I will also up the cost of the later second era techs, to let the end play out more slowly. Though that will make the Cruiser class much harder to get. How long did you play into the second age? That's when the real fun starts.
About the scenario vs conquest search folder, that is a total my bad. Its a bad habit of mine to put it in Conquests/conquests. I will correct that with version .2
Thank you for the very first bug report! I will correct the MechaTitan upgrade path. I have accidentally neglected to check all of my units for upgrades, etc. Just last night I noticed some rather major flaws in some very important units. Thanks for looking ahead at the other units! The Mecha line is the very last assault unit, and is analogous to a Modern Armor.
Yes, all the other Alien civs are supposed to be there, but not in this scenario.
I just copied my usual .biq, which is actually going to be my 'Epic' scenario once I finish.
The public .biq will not include the extra civs or the extra units.
And please, don't give away the surprises about the other Alien Civilizations! One in particular is going to be a major player in the next scenario....
And lastly, how did the AI do? Did you see widespread colonization? Last night's pre-testing showed that the AI wouldn't build roads to the resource needed for the space freighters, which made them unable to colonize. They wouldn't build a road one tile away from a workable tile! I change the placing of the Helium-3s to change this. And how easy was it to start up some colonies and get some colonial goods? I recently made the colonial improvements a little cheaper to get the trading started sooner.
And really lastly...how about that hyperspace drive, huh? I think that is too cool. Thanks again, WeaselOp, for letting me know about the mp of zero. Makes this scenario a lot more playable.
Food production is limited for a reason. The AI usually goes nuts with units, and as each unit costs a population point, this cuts down on both units and city size. The "Old Colonies" are supposed to be jumping off points for more successful off-world colonies. Most of the Sol colonies are supposed to be at a disadvantage from the start. This is to force the AI to send out their colony landers to other systems. The AI also doesn't seem to build ANY irrigation, so they suffer as a result. As colony landers are auto-produced, this lack of food only really hinders the amount of units the AI can build which helps my next topic...
War. War never changes. And this is very true in the near-future. Often somebody wants your little colony because they think their little National Guardsman (warrior) can take on your forces, or because your little alliance gets attacked. Defending your colony is a very important task in the first couple of turns, because on a high enough difficulty, the AI sees you as easy pickings. Soon though, your stockpile of missiles makes direct attack in the Sol System quite messy, and once your outside colonies are providing you with income (and lasers!) your home system is quite comfortable. I am trying to think of a single powerful unit to pre-place in the colonies to stop a two-turn game, though, as I have played a few of those, and they are embarrassing. Most of those losses, however, were cases of AI cheating. Like I said before, no guarantee of balanced gameplay
.As for getting to the second age soon, that was intentional. If you give the civs less techs to start out with, those wars I've been talking about get pretty epic (and frustrating, and potentially disastrous). Just a few extra techs, (mostly the ones needed for freighters) and you have a colonization game instead of a fortress game. The second age is the main age for this mod, especially the first half of the second age. I might cut the speed down by making a bunch of techs untradeable, especially the last couple ones in the Solar age, and a few in the next age. I will also up the cost of the later second era techs, to let the end play out more slowly. Though that will make the Cruiser class much harder to get. How long did you play into the second age? That's when the real fun starts.
About the scenario vs conquest search folder, that is a total my bad. Its a bad habit of mine to put it in Conquests/conquests. I will correct that with version .2
Thank you for the very first bug report! I will correct the MechaTitan upgrade path. I have accidentally neglected to check all of my units for upgrades, etc. Just last night I noticed some rather major flaws in some very important units. Thanks for looking ahead at the other units! The Mecha line is the very last assault unit, and is analogous to a Modern Armor.
Yes, all the other Alien civs are supposed to be there, but not in this scenario
.I just copied my usual .biq, which is actually going to be my 'Epic' scenario once I finish.
The public .biq will not include the extra civs or the extra units.
And please, don't give away the surprises about the other Alien Civilizations! One in particular is going to be a major player in the next scenario....
And lastly, how did the AI do? Did you see widespread colonization? Last night's pre-testing showed that the AI wouldn't build roads to the resource needed for the space freighters, which made them unable to colonize. They wouldn't build a road one tile away from a workable tile! I change the placing of the Helium-3s to change this. And how easy was it to start up some colonies and get some colonial goods? I recently made the colonial improvements a little cheaper to get the trading started sooner.
And really lastly...how about that hyperspace drive, huh? I think that is too cool. Thanks again, WeaselOp, for letting me know about the mp of zero. Makes this scenario a lot more playable.
King Coltrane
King
ill give some feedback from my first game as the russians (i know they arent russia but thats ok)
first off, earth is FAR too powerful. they took out england (ill refer to civs by leaderhead civ) on like the 10th turn or so and from there just boomed... tech wise. they ended up with only 3 colonies but started a war with me at the very end, which they lost.
i think colonization needs to be more limited to be fair against the AI though. Earth had 3 colonies, Japan had 4 or so, and i had something like 26. i was raking in money, breezing through techs, conquered a [NOT MENTIONING SPECIAL CIV] and captured 22 workers, and generally had an easy time. by the time i had my first jumpship i had like 3 or 4 settlers ready to go and exploded in a fury of colonization throughout every system pretty much. I really didnt build a military although once i finished the tech tree i was going to build cruisers until i found out they arent very good. their bombard of 3 is too weak at that stage and no other powers have navies, so they are kinda useless. i tried blockading the hyperspace lanes but that was really a moot point since the other civs didnt really expand much. so in the end i just nuked the crap out of the old england city since it was within reach and took it. then i decided i was done.
some comments:
VP is disabled by default so those resources dont do anything, this should be changed
obviously civpedias should be done but that goes without saying...
increase the number of turns it takes to spawn the settler units so colonization is slower.
i like the tech tree but i think we should expand it to add a little more depth, though again i like it how it is now too. disabling trades for some techs might do the trick.
OH! something you should absolutely do: scaled HPs. i want my cruisers to have like 10 HP instead of 3, like the voyagers do. similarly mechs should have more than human units, etc. this really adds a lot to combat IMO.
I would make the city improvements cheaper all around but add more small wonders to increase diversity. so it doesnt take too much to make a colony pseudo developed, but if you want to make it really shine (with a Spice Trade small wonder for example) it will take some effort and time. im not saying you need one for each resource, but we can be creative with it.
on the same vein, lets add a ton of great wonders too. i think using autoproduction a lot will be a good thing. as it is the AI should have autoproduced naval units to give them something to work with... air units for that matter too.
i think we should have an alternate BIQ with some established cities around the universe and a somewhat developed set of colonies, just to give play variety. as much as i love colonization, the AI needs help with it.
finally, im excited to see what fills in the last 2 eras. i hope it is huge and crazy... death star perhaps? haha
but again, overall it is pretty fun. good job so far!
(and its really beautiful. i love the graphics)
first off, earth is FAR too powerful. they took out england (ill refer to civs by leaderhead civ) on like the 10th turn or so and from there just boomed... tech wise. they ended up with only 3 colonies but started a war with me at the very end, which they lost.
i think colonization needs to be more limited to be fair against the AI though. Earth had 3 colonies, Japan had 4 or so, and i had something like 26. i was raking in money, breezing through techs, conquered a [NOT MENTIONING SPECIAL CIV] and captured 22 workers, and generally had an easy time. by the time i had my first jumpship i had like 3 or 4 settlers ready to go and exploded in a fury of colonization throughout every system pretty much. I really didnt build a military although once i finished the tech tree i was going to build cruisers until i found out they arent very good. their bombard of 3 is too weak at that stage and no other powers have navies, so they are kinda useless. i tried blockading the hyperspace lanes but that was really a moot point since the other civs didnt really expand much. so in the end i just nuked the crap out of the old england city since it was within reach and took it. then i decided i was done.
some comments:
VP is disabled by default so those resources dont do anything, this should be changed
obviously civpedias should be done but that goes without saying...
increase the number of turns it takes to spawn the settler units so colonization is slower.
i like the tech tree but i think we should expand it to add a little more depth, though again i like it how it is now too. disabling trades for some techs might do the trick.
OH! something you should absolutely do: scaled HPs. i want my cruisers to have like 10 HP instead of 3, like the voyagers do. similarly mechs should have more than human units, etc. this really adds a lot to combat IMO.
I would make the city improvements cheaper all around but add more small wonders to increase diversity. so it doesnt take too much to make a colony pseudo developed, but if you want to make it really shine (with a Spice Trade small wonder for example) it will take some effort and time. im not saying you need one for each resource, but we can be creative with it.
on the same vein, lets add a ton of great wonders too. i think using autoproduction a lot will be a good thing. as it is the AI should have autoproduced naval units to give them something to work with... air units for that matter too.
i think we should have an alternate BIQ with some established cities around the universe and a somewhat developed set of colonies, just to give play variety. as much as i love colonization, the AI needs help with it.
finally, im excited to see what fills in the last 2 eras. i hope it is huge and crazy... death star perhaps? haha
but again, overall it is pretty fun. good job so far!
(and its really beautiful. i love the graphics)
againsttheflow
unpolitically uncorrect
Do your workers have all the worker actions in the editor flagged? If you take away one worker action the AI becomes very confused as to how to use the ones it has.
Deth McBones
The Inconsistent Modder
King Coltrane,
Thank you very much!
First off, the idea of an alternate biq with more developed colonies is a great idea. I couldn't decide whether to make the one I gave you guys have colonies outside of Sol, for the AI's sake. Will do.
Next, I agree wholeheartedly with the HP idea. I needed something to make the "Battle" class a little bit more robust, and that would do it. Also, the "Probe" class should have a -1 or -2 HP, but I forgot that somewhere along the way.
I have started collecting an assortment of extra splashes for Small and Great Wonders, specifically for auto-production. The problem is that I am no good at making the corresponding pedia icons and bldg_small and large icons. I will work on that in the coming weeks.
Victory Points are not supposed to be disabled. This will be fixed. Also, the default limit of 50k VP is too high, and the locational VP are too high.
A magic number is indeed needed for the settler spawn. Perhaps moving the Colonization Program to a later tech is needed.
Improvements do need a little tinkering, but it is hard to start a new colony in a whole new system...and since this scenario is in months...
The tech tree is kinda a WIP, but also kinda stable. I want to include cool ideas, but sometimes they don't sync with gameplay. Diplomacy comes really late, and I'm still wishy-washy on what terrain improvements should be implemented as (forts, barricades, radar, etc).
Overall, I wish I had worked on my wonders a bit more before releasing it to you guys. Wonders are really an integral part of Civ, and they would give a much-needed focus for human players and boosts for the AI.
You guys should really help me come up with crazy ideas for the last era...I don't exactly want Death Stars, but there is so much to learn from Stealth Attack, Enslave, and Paradrop that could make some really cool alternate gameplay ideas. (In space!) (And there is that World Devastator unit...)
I'm so glad you enjoyed the game (overall). With a little tinkering we can make this scenario UNSTOPPABLE! I'd really like to see all of our ideas create an EFZI2-like scenario, one that changes how we see Civ. I mean, this is just the beginning. You guys are playing with one culture set, and I have planned eight-ish.
And lastly, thanks for mentioning the pcx work. I tried to make this unique, unlike NavyDawg's or NeOmega's, and besides for the base terrain and interface, I've modified just about everything else. And of course I scoured the DB and Unit Library for all the best sci-fi units. I can't thank Flamand enough for his awesome ships (which you guys are the first to actually get from CFC besides myself and Flamand and his Star Trek modding team.) Oh, and sorry about the nuclear explosions. I can't get it working. I need to just redo it or go back to the old tactical nuke explosions. I forgot to change that. (I have a whole sheet of paper of stuff I forgot to add in...needless to say expect V .101 this weekend.)
Againsttheflow,
That's the first thing I checked. It's there, checked all right.
I have no idea what was going on.
Thank you very much!
First off, the idea of an alternate biq with more developed colonies is a great idea. I couldn't decide whether to make the one I gave you guys have colonies outside of Sol, for the AI's sake. Will do.
Next, I agree wholeheartedly with the HP idea. I needed something to make the "Battle" class a little bit more robust, and that would do it. Also, the "Probe" class should have a -1 or -2 HP, but I forgot that somewhere along the way.
I have started collecting an assortment of extra splashes for Small and Great Wonders, specifically for auto-production. The problem is that I am no good at making the corresponding pedia icons and bldg_small and large icons. I will work on that in the coming weeks.
Victory Points are not supposed to be disabled. This will be fixed. Also, the default limit of 50k VP is too high, and the locational VP are too high.
A magic number is indeed needed for the settler spawn. Perhaps moving the Colonization Program to a later tech is needed.
Improvements do need a little tinkering, but it is hard to start a new colony in a whole new system...and since this scenario is in months...
The tech tree is kinda a WIP, but also kinda stable. I want to include cool ideas, but sometimes they don't sync with gameplay. Diplomacy comes really late, and I'm still wishy-washy on what terrain improvements should be implemented as (forts, barricades, radar, etc).
Overall, I wish I had worked on my wonders a bit more before releasing it to you guys. Wonders are really an integral part of Civ, and they would give a much-needed focus for human players and boosts for the AI.
You guys should really help me come up with crazy ideas for the last era...I don't exactly want Death Stars, but there is so much to learn from Stealth Attack, Enslave, and Paradrop that could make some really cool alternate gameplay ideas. (In space!) (And there is that World Devastator unit...)
I'm so glad you enjoyed the game (overall). With a little tinkering we can make this scenario UNSTOPPABLE! I'd really like to see all of our ideas create an EFZI2-like scenario, one that changes how we see Civ. I mean, this is just the beginning. You guys are playing with one culture set, and I have planned eight-ish.
And lastly, thanks for mentioning the pcx work. I tried to make this unique, unlike NavyDawg's or NeOmega's, and besides for the base terrain and interface, I've modified just about everything else. And of course I scoured the DB and Unit Library for all the best sci-fi units. I can't thank Flamand enough for his awesome ships (which you guys are the first to actually get from CFC besides myself and Flamand and his Star Trek modding team.) Oh, and sorry about the nuclear explosions. I can't get it working. I need to just redo it or go back to the old tactical nuke explosions. I forgot to change that. (I have a whole sheet of paper of stuff I forgot to add in...needless to say expect V .101 this weekend.)
Againsttheflow,
That's the first thing I checked. It's there, checked all right.
I have no idea what was going on.
CiaranB123
That guy
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 409
In my go the AI did a lot of colonising! I think that there should be more turns when a space settler thing is spawned because I had way too much.
I'll go on it a bit more tonight though. I'll find the [secret] tonight. (hopefully)
A screenie:
Spoiler :
EDIT:
againsttheflow said:
Yes they are flagged.
Philadelphus
Chieftain
Well! I have to say this is one excellent scenario, even if it is only a first draft. That said, it is a pre-beta, and you're looking for bugs and problems. That's where I come in. 
Where to start? I'll just go through the game I played, and give you the thoughts I had as I was playing. I can't keep all the names of the various civilizations straight, so I'll just refer to them by the planet they start out on.
I fired up a game as the Space Conglomerate on Mercury, partly because I like the Scientific trait. I quickly discovered the oddities of locked alliances, as I got dragged into a war with Earth when he attacked my ally Venus. He sent all of one wimpy unit to attack my base, which gave me a Golden Age when he lost!
I began the slow process of building up an attack force to counter attack, not having had much time to build up my military yet -- but by the time I was ready, we were at peace! I never even got a message about it.
One note at this point: I didn't realize probes could be lost in outer space, so I lost mine near the beginning. Also, I noticed the AI using them as cover for their transports -- kinda weird behavior for a probe, if you ask me. Maybe, like King Coltrane suggested, having different amounts of hitpoints for different kinds of units would help(or maybe removing their attack point...it feels odd to be attacking with a Voyager probe).
I soon got a Colony Freighter out, and discovered the Hyperlanes even before researching the correct technology to make them visible. I got a big head start on the AI that way. My very first city turned out to be my best, surprisingly. I have to compliment you on actually naming the stars. I'm an amateur astronomer, and most of those names are personally familiar to me, so it almost felt like meeting old friends. Keep up the good work!
After this point, I entered a rapid expansion phase, facilitated by discovering and building Colonial Jumpships.
All I can say about those is, wow! Those things are amazing! Personally, I thought the Colony Pods spawned on Mercury came at about the right time. I just kept building more defense units to cover them, and sending them out as fast as I could find planets to put them on.
One tiny beef with the workers: since I was expanding so rapidly, I usually had fewer workers than cities, so I never had more than one worker helping a particular city. Once that worker was done, however, I had to send a ship over to pick him up and move him to the new frontlines of development, costing me precious ship resources. I'm wondering, what if you gave workers the "re-base" option, like the Star Frigate? That way, when they got done with one little system, they could instantly move to a just-placed city to help it expand. I think letting them build Radar Towers would be a good thing too, because it gives you another option for them when they're done improving.
It certainly worked out that my colonies became more powerful than my original base. I didn't realize you were supposed to build the Nuclear Arms Cache at home, so I built it out by Sigma Draconis -- I was kicking myself over that decision later, when I realized my nukes were useless because they couldn't reach anybody else and I couldn't transport them anywhere!
As the game wore on I realized that I had forgotten to enable a victory point win, which kinda killed the fun in having an overseas empire. I'll remember to do that next game I play, because I really like the "colonial treasure" model as found in the Age of Discovery scenario that came with the game, and which this seems designed to emulate. So, getting slightly bored, I decided to go out in a blaze of glory and win by conquest. This was not too difficult, since the AI didn't bother making many colonies.
By this time, I had researched every technology and was finally getting the right buildings to connect the resources from my colonies with my capital (had to look at the scenario file while playing to figure it out! I might need to make a rough Civilopedia file just for my own information). So, I began massing troops (in jumpships, to let me bring them in from far off) and began systematically attacking and destroying the various other powers in the solar system. Most of them went down without more than 2 tanks used. For some reason, the AI doesn't seem to like to build defenders. On the other hand, most of their bases were PACKED with workers and colony pods, which netted me something like 12-16 workers each capital I took. With so much momentum, there was no way to stop me. After a few turns of moving my Attack Tanks around (and upgrading them to the powerful and cool Laser Tanks) I captured the last non-alliance city and won.
Overall:
Pros:
Cons:
Other than that, just a few thoughts...
Finally, let me just say that this is all constructive criticism. I really enjoyed playing this. I found myself making up little stories about the people in my ships, and the thrill of scouting a hyperlane and coming upon some unknown planet (around a familiar star, no less) was immense. I felt like I was actually discovering new horizens, and watching my culture spread from star to star to star made me quite proud of myself. Someday, when this is done, I think it would be great fun to write a Civ story about it.
I've attatched a screenshot I took...I meant to take more, but forgot to check that they were actually being taken. This one is from near the end of the game. As you can see, I've already captured Earth and am just about to conquer Mars. (the message from my advisor, "And I am proud to report that we now control Planet Earth!" nearly made me hurt myself laughing)
P.S. Some of the resources were difficult to see, especially the "gas" resources and the "tachyions". (which I think is spelled "tachyons") Making them more visible so they're easier to see and identify would be a great improvement, I think.
Where to start? I'll just go through the game I played, and give you the thoughts I had as I was playing. I can't keep all the names of the various civilizations straight, so I'll just refer to them by the planet they start out on.
I fired up a game as the Space Conglomerate on Mercury, partly because I like the Scientific trait. I quickly discovered the oddities of locked alliances, as I got dragged into a war with Earth when he attacked my ally Venus. He sent all of one wimpy unit to attack my base, which gave me a Golden Age when he lost!
I began the slow process of building up an attack force to counter attack, not having had much time to build up my military yet -- but by the time I was ready, we were at peace! I never even got a message about it. One note at this point: I didn't realize probes could be lost in outer space, so I lost mine near the beginning. Also, I noticed the AI using them as cover for their transports -- kinda weird behavior for a probe, if you ask me. Maybe, like King Coltrane suggested, having different amounts of hitpoints for different kinds of units would help(or maybe removing their attack point...it feels odd to be attacking with a Voyager probe).
I soon got a Colony Freighter out, and discovered the Hyperlanes even before researching the correct technology to make them visible. I got a big head start on the AI that way. My very first city turned out to be my best, surprisingly. I have to compliment you on actually naming the stars. I'm an amateur astronomer, and most of those names are personally familiar to me, so it almost felt like meeting old friends. Keep up the good work!
After this point, I entered a rapid expansion phase, facilitated by discovering and building Colonial Jumpships.
All I can say about those is, wow! Those things are amazing! Personally, I thought the Colony Pods spawned on Mercury came at about the right time. I just kept building more defense units to cover them, and sending them out as fast as I could find planets to put them on.One tiny beef with the workers: since I was expanding so rapidly, I usually had fewer workers than cities, so I never had more than one worker helping a particular city. Once that worker was done, however, I had to send a ship over to pick him up and move him to the new frontlines of development, costing me precious ship resources. I'm wondering, what if you gave workers the "re-base" option, like the Star Frigate? That way, when they got done with one little system, they could instantly move to a just-placed city to help it expand. I think letting them build Radar Towers would be a good thing too, because it gives you another option for them when they're done improving.
It certainly worked out that my colonies became more powerful than my original base. I didn't realize you were supposed to build the Nuclear Arms Cache at home, so I built it out by Sigma Draconis -- I was kicking myself over that decision later, when I realized my nukes were useless because they couldn't reach anybody else and I couldn't transport them anywhere!
As the game wore on I realized that I had forgotten to enable a victory point win, which kinda killed the fun in having an overseas empire. I'll remember to do that next game I play, because I really like the "colonial treasure" model as found in the Age of Discovery scenario that came with the game, and which this seems designed to emulate. So, getting slightly bored, I decided to go out in a blaze of glory and win by conquest. This was not too difficult, since the AI didn't bother making many colonies.
By this time, I had researched every technology and was finally getting the right buildings to connect the resources from my colonies with my capital (had to look at the scenario file while playing to figure it out! I might need to make a rough Civilopedia file just for my own information). So, I began massing troops (in jumpships, to let me bring them in from far off) and began systematically attacking and destroying the various other powers in the solar system. Most of them went down without more than 2 tanks used. For some reason, the AI doesn't seem to like to build defenders. On the other hand, most of their bases were PACKED with workers and colony pods, which netted me something like 12-16 workers each capital I took. With so much momentum, there was no way to stop me. After a few turns of moving my Attack Tanks around (and upgrading them to the powerful and cool Laser Tanks) I captured the last non-alliance city and won.
Overall:
Pros:
- Well, it's space. The solar system is pretty well done, lacking only Uranus of the large planets. Most of the other systems look like they could be real places, and we are talking sci-fi here, so good work on that. The star names especially give it a realistic flavor.
- Hyperspace lanes. Seriously, those things are awesome. I could get ships halfway across the rather large map in about 4-5 turns depending on the exact route they took.
- The colonial goods system. If it had been enabled, it would have been a much different task managing returning all those goods to my capital. You didn't enable sea units with the Enslave ability by any chance, did you?
Cons:
- Unit upgrades. Still being able to build Security Guards (0.1.1) at the end of the second age? It seemed like almost all through the game I had the choice of several different offensive and defensive units to build. By itself, that's not a bad thing, I can see having a weak, cheap defender and a strong, more expensive one available at the same time. But I do think you should be able to upgrade your weak starting units sooner than the second age.
- Terrain. It took me a while to get used to the terrain system. (I couldn't figure out for the longest time how you'd managed to get 5 different types of sea terrain, until it finally hit me that "orbital space" was really land...boy do I feel silly ) I think some good documentation in the civiliopedia would really help with this, and maybe a mention of it in the little text box that pops up when you first start the game.
- The Civiliopedia. Luckily, this is a relatively easy one to fix. I had to open the scenario file while I was playing several times to figure out just what benefit a particular building conferred. But, like I said, easy to fix.
- The alliances. Normally, I don't mind locked alliances, but when I'm suddenly dragged into a war I'm not prepared for by my ally, it's annoying at best and downright dangerous at worst. On the other hand, it makes it more of a challenge to play, and I do think that's a good thing. If only there were a way to keep the AI from totally trashing my reputation in the first 30 turns of the game.
Other than that, just a few thoughts...
- You're right, at the beginning it does feel sort of like ancient Greece. Maybe starting each civilization with something like a Colony Freighter and a Colony Pod so they can begin colonizing immediately?(for the AI, you could put the Colony Pod INSIDE the Colony Freighter, to hopefully motivate them to actually use it) Another thought would be to have a strong defensive unit or two (immobile, perhaps) on each civ's starting base.
- More wonders, especially small wonders. I think one that puts a Space Station in every city woud be amazingly helpful, and another to give a +2 bonus to ship movement, to take advantage of that flag in the editor. I always enjoy designing wonders in my mods, so if you need any ideas in that category, I'd be happy to help.
- The amount of buildings overall was good. I'm a peaceful-builder type when I'm not conquering the world, and the fact that I never ran out of buildings to build in a city and always felt like I had several good options each time something finished was great. I think a few of them could stand to come down in price a little, but on the whole the balance was good.
Finally, let me just say that this is all constructive criticism. I really enjoyed playing this. I found myself making up little stories about the people in my ships, and the thrill of scouting a hyperlane and coming upon some unknown planet (around a familiar star, no less) was immense. I felt like I was actually discovering new horizens, and watching my culture spread from star to star to star made me quite proud of myself. Someday, when this is done, I think it would be great fun to write a Civ story about it.
I've attatched a screenshot I took...I meant to take more, but forgot to check that they were actually being taken. This one is from near the end of the game. As you can see, I've already captured Earth and am just about to conquer Mars. (the message from my advisor, "And I am proud to report that we now control Planet Earth!" nearly made me hurt myself laughing)
P.S. Some of the resources were difficult to see, especially the "gas" resources and the "tachyions". (which I think is spelled "tachyons") Making them more visible so they're easier to see and identify would be a great improvement, I think.
Spoiler :
Attachments
Deth McBones
The Inconsistent Modder
Philadelphus, man, thanks!
All of you guys have awesome stuff to say.
First off, I am SO glad you had so much fun. This is the kind of gameplay I was trying to get out to people.
Now, about the main problems:
Also, the Planet Earth is a Wonder that has a high maintenance cost, but allows a level 3 city. Also, what King Coltrane mentioned before about Earth being too powerful needs to be addressed. I purposely gave Earth strong defensive units early off, and no special assault units. Perhaps the rampant growth of the population needs to be lowered. I don't know.
Also, if I haven't mentioned this before, is the inter-stellar trading okay? The need to build deep space ports is needed, but is it too much? I wanted to make it harder to get the luxuries to your home colony, but does it do this at the expense of strategic resource trade?
All of you guys have awesome stuff to say.
First off, I am SO glad you had so much fun. This is the kind of gameplay I was trying to get out to people.
Now, about the main problems:
- Alliances: The alliance system was set up to try to get some civs to actually work together and to stop everybody from just destroying everyone in the first few turns. I have no idea why the end of a war that starts with a ally getting attacked or attacking is not announced. I do know that it requires an ally making peace with your antagonist. I think it's hardcoded though. If the alliance system is that reviled, then it might need to go.
- Voyage Probes: Yes, I need to remove some HP from the Voyager probes, but the only AI strategies I can assign are Naval Power, Carrier, Transport and Missile Transport. If the AI uses them without a strategy, then their attack point may be removed. I don't think
- Workers: Actually, while you could move them around a whole bunch, (and I realize that there is not much for the workers to do after a while), it might be cheaper to build them at the colony sites, depending on how far away the colony is, because they do not require a population point.
- Civpedia: Sorry about that, I will be listing what they all do and what they represent in the first couple of posts. This will also clear up the problem with the orbital/solar space problems
- Better starting units: Indeed, as I said before, I am trying to figure out a good unit to preplace to make those initial wars a thing of the past. I will seriously consider adding a colonial freighter for all civs. Beta testing will see how well that works.
- Upgrades: Yes, I forgot to give the Security Officer an upgrade. The real problem with the extra upgrades (apart from some bugs in the upgrade trees that I think might still be lurking around) is that I really don't have enough gfx to have 2 or more upgrades per line per age. I think a sprinkling of units like the Strike Infantry would add some more complex warfare options.
- Resources: The tachyon misspelling is actually tachy-ions. They were going to be needed for all FTL flight, but that cannot be used for obvious reasons in this scenario. Which gas were you talking about?
- Wonders: Currently working on this. Some ideas would be great. I currently am thinking of a wonder to auto-produce Space Cruisers, a wonder to auto-produce pirate raiders or mercenaries, a mega-Internet that would function as a Great Library, and some cultural Wonders for civs like the UEN.
Also, the Planet Earth is a Wonder that has a high maintenance cost, but allows a level 3 city. Also, what King Coltrane mentioned before about Earth being too powerful needs to be addressed. I purposely gave Earth strong defensive units early off, and no special assault units. Perhaps the rampant growth of the population needs to be lowered. I don't know.
Also, if I haven't mentioned this before, is the inter-stellar trading okay? The need to build deep space ports is needed, but is it too much? I wanted to make it harder to get the luxuries to your home colony, but does it do this at the expense of strategic resource trade?
King Coltrane
King
have you read the Foundation series? i think some interesting ideas could be taken from this, including psychic powers, personal vs. large scale shields, and more.
Philadelphus
Chieftain
If the AI didn't drag you into a bunch of wars and trash your reputation, it would be fine. It can be nice to have an ally, sometimes. The problem is keeping the AI warmongering down in the beginning...
I didn't even think of that.
I noticed they didn't require population when I tried adding them to cities, but still...That might be another reason to allow them to build Radar Towers and Air Fields (call them "Orbital Defense Grids" and "Orbital Shipyards"). Since they don't cost population and you can't add them back into cities to increase their population, there's much less of a discouragement from using them up to build other things.
Well, the Security Officer doesn't have to upgrade to a totally new unit. Just have him upgrade to a Colonial Marine, or a Laser Infantry, or something else that comes slightly later in the game. Just like C3C where Longbowmen and Medieval Infantry both upgrade to Guerillas.
Here's a nice Wikipedia article on tachyons. Pretty cool stuff.
The gases like O2, CH4, and Xe were small and slightly hard to see. It might help if you just increased the size of the icon a little bit.
With Conquests, you have another "increase naval movement" flag to play with. In Age of Discovery, all European civilizations could build a small wonder called the Navigation School that increased naval movement by +2, while a large wonder (Magellan's voyage, I think) increased it another +1. I think switching it around and having every civ be able to build a +1 movement small wonder, with one lucky civ getting the coveted +2 great wonder would make for some interesting gameplay.
I really liked the idea of the small wonder Space Agency giving 2 free technologies.
It came early, when I felt like I could really use it, and there was no competition to worry about.Other possible wonders to consider are ones that place buildings in all cities. Those are the ones that can really make a difference in a game. I'll think about it and come up with some more ideas.
It did seem to take a long time to get some strategic resources back to my home base. I was able to build Attack Tanks in some of my colonies long before being able to build them back home, which felt a little odd. I do like how the planets in a system can trade with each other, it gives you a feeling of a small group of people, working together around "their" star, against whatever comes. I like the Deep Space Dock idea too. I suggest keeping it the way it is (costwise) but moving it up on the tech tree. That way, you could pick one planet in a system to focus on building the Deep Space Dock that would connect it with the rest of your systems, while the Space Stations in-system would keep all the other planets connected. But the cost should stay about the same to keep people from building them willy-nilly. Such a decision would definitely require some more testing.
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