Developing a logical (aka non whiny) list of issues with Civ V

[mattavich]

I think the new AI is great but needs work. there are bugs like the way they give up their cities very easily which need fixing.

i will note down any bugs and post here.

Thank you for a good unbiased thread. We want this title to blow the world away, so the bets thing we can do is help the issues get addressed.

 

[mattavich]

Oh, I noticed one of my improvement tiles, I think it could be a mine, has one of my units icons above it, as if a unit is on the tile, when I select it I can't move it anywhere, there is no model for it either. as if it is stuck or somehow the game has bugged out and thinks there is an archer unit there.

All I can see is the icon floating, it is selectable, but again I can't move it and when I select it no info panels display info about the unit.

 

[Bad Brett]

3) Embarkation/Naval Combat. Once you get over the distinct difference from previous games, it just is a better system. Naval combat is finally important, colonization is now no longer such a big headache, its just a win win.

This is exactly what I don't like with Civ5. Oceans should be hard to cross. In Civ 2, a transport ship could carry 8 units, but for some reason they lowered this amount to 4 in Civ 4. Most likely because the wanted to do naval invasions harder to pull off. Otherwise you might as well play pangea maps.

 

[comatosedragon]

Something I have not seen anyone else mention: Why can't I see my research from the city screen?! When assigning/unassigning specialists in libraries/universities etc, I must escape out of the city screen to see how my current research is affected, then back in, then back out . . .

Something that is very awesome in CIV V, however; is the ability to scroll around the map with certain pop-ups open (like chose science for example, I can scroll around with the tech tree open, looking for resources to help me pick my next tech).

 

[sgrig]

A good list. Here is what I'd like to add or fix:

1) International trade routes - currently you only get a bonus for having a connection between your capital and your cities, however international trade has always been very important, so this should be represented

2) Airports - I don't understand how such a vital building has been left off. This should serve the purpose of both airlifting and trade routes

3) Railroad bonus - currently it seems unfair that the capital doesn't get anything. Perhaps could be in the form of a bulding "Rail Terminus", which gives a production bonus in the capital for each city connected by RR

4) Workboats and embarked units should be stackable with military naval units - this may even be a bug. However I don't understand why totally defenseless units can't be stacked with navy ships
5) There should be a greater progression of embarked unit speed as you get more technology. 4 hex/turn in modern age is just silly

6) Perhaps allow some limited stacking of non-combat units, workers in particular, in order to be able to speed up construction of improvements. This however is debatable. However there should be some an improvement in improvement construction times as you get better technology. It's silly that building a road in modern age takes as long as in stone age.

7) Why no circumnavigation bonus?? This was a very nice touch in Civ4, and I want it back!

8) I really like city states, but would prefer some more variety in city state traits. For example scientific which give a science bonus, and industrious which give a production bonus. This way they could be more varied.

9) Ability to sell off unneeded/too expensive buildings - now that building upkeep can get very expensive, there should be a way to get rid of unwanted ones

10) This is unlikely to be changed, but I really really hate trade posts! The cottage/hamlet/town system in Civ4 was so much better. Trade posts are ugly, and the main strategy now seems to involve trade post spamming everywhere. In Civ4 at least, you could only build cottages on flat terrain. Something should be done about trade posts.

11) I concur with about posters who want more info in the game. List of wonders and Top 5 cities has been in every civ since Civ1. Why not here? Also, where is the Power Graph? I'd also like more transparency about my economy - what is the total upkeep cost in each city, how much each unit costs to maintain, etc. Also in Military Adviser I want to be able to click on a unit and for it to be selected. Currently nothing happens. Perhaps this is a bug. Another thing that I'd like is stats about how many units I've killed, how many cities razed and captured, how many units I lost.

12) Something that has been mentioned before is that the pathing algorithm is too slow. Even a few hexes away it takes a while to calculate the route (not too mention the trespassing issues). This I think is the main reason why the turn times are long - routes have to be calculated many times during a turn. If the algorithm is optimized, then the game will also be much quicker. I don't see a reason why it should be that much slower than the Civ4 algorithm. If anything, the overall graph is simpler - each vertex has 6 edges rather than 8 (you could move in 8 directions from each Civ4 tiles). Of course 1upt should be handled, but I don't see it being such a problem.

 

[DarkMaster]

Very good job. Please, keep it up!

 

[Zero_Class]

I never thought I'd see the day. A well thought out, constructive criticism of the game. You make plenty of valid points and I agree with you on quite a few aspects especially the pacing and production speed of buildings. I think Firaxis needs to take a look at this and seriously take this into consideration. Hell, I personally am loving this game and I still agree with you. Good post man.

 

[funkyj]

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems that the military advisor is missing a world map that shows the selected unit types. I relied on that heavily in Civ4 to manage my military.

 

[boredatwork]

Please add using multi monitor mode will not allow the screen to scroll left or right. You must use the arrow keys mini map etc... to accomplish this or turn of the extra montor(s). Confirmed witrh a thread and I have an open ticket with 2K support.

I have a multi monitor set up and it does scroll. The only problem is the "zone" that activates it on the "between monitor" side is impossibly thin so it's a lot harder to hit than up/down/left.

 

[lodester]

I posted this in another thread, but I'll add it here.

- No game-long statistics view at the end of the game. This awesome nerdacular view with the histogram for output over time vs. all civs. I really, really, really liked this and expected it with Civ5, but it's gone. I heart it and want it back! ok that's a little whiney....but i do miss it. /snif

- Visibility in to unit maintenance. I think everyone has this problem, and I'm not sure if it's a learning curve but the data present doesn't lead back to a discernible view in to "If i build X it will impact maintenance by Y" which I think is a fair thing to ask for. If you're like me you get in to a $ crunch and start deleting less-useful units "hoping" you'll pop the $per turn up.

- Diplomacy relationship view. Which I think it is good that diplomacy is more mysterious and not as spoon-fed as prior versions, the information that you DO have is poorly displayed, requiring visits to many screens and "connecting the dots" across them. Just needs a better presentation of what is there, not anything new.

On this note, I will also state I think a lot of people are basing their requests on transparency of information based on habit and not the new game design. I never liked how much information was spoon-fed to me in Civ4 (and to a lesser extent the previous generations). It just felt too gamey. Visiting the Civ4 victory conditions screen and diplomacy screen (specifically the Techs view) always felt like cheating. The emphasis in Civ5 on less clear diplomatic positions, progression, and overall winning conditions I feel is a very very good step forward for gameplay.

 

[sgrig]

On this note, I will also state I think a lot of people are basing their requests on transparency of information based on habit and not the new game design. I never liked how much information was spoon-fed to me in Civ4 (and to a lesser extent the previous generations). It just felt too gamey. Visiting the Civ4 victory conditions screen and diplomacy screen (specifically the Techs view) always felt like cheating. The emphasis in Civ5 on less clear diplomatic positions, progression, and overall winning conditions I feel is a very very good step forward for gameplay.

I think it is not cheating if you know what techs your opponents have. I think in Civ5 we could use with more information about opponents. However I'm sure they'll introduce some kind of espionage system in a later XP.

 

[ShaqFu]

The Civlopedia is somewhat funky when it comes to Spaceship Parts. According to the tech tree, they have high costs (700 for boosters, 1000 for cockpit, etc.), but in Civlopedia the text is "Cost: FREE!"

I also wish Civlopedia had more detailed information. I'm curious as to how long the Golden Age of the Taj Mahal is, but it's not listed anywhere. I also can't find what buildings provide which/how many Specialists without building it and checking then; it's in neither Civlopedia nor city-screen building description.

There's actually a setting for that in UserSettings.ini

This is actually my main complaint with Civ5 thus far - there are a ton of options, but they're hidden in .ini files. It'd be great if all (well, most) of the options like worker automation, intro video, etc. were included in the in-game option menu.

 

[KanyeNW]

A good list. Here is what I'd like to add or fix:

1) International trade routes - currently you only get a bonus for having a connection between your capital and your cities, however international trade has always been very important, so this should be represented

2) Airports - I don't understand how such a vital building has been left off. This should serve the purpose of both airlifting and trade routes

3) Railroad bonus - currently it seems unfair that the capital doesn't get anything. Perhaps could be in the form of a bulding "Rail Terminus", which gives a production bonus in the capital for each city connected by RR

4) Workboats and embarked units should be stackable with military naval units - this may even be a bug. However I don't understand why totally defenseless units can't be stacked with navy ships
5) There should be a greater progression of embarked unit speed as you get more technology. 4 hex/turn in modern age is just silly

6) Perhaps allow some limited stacking of non-combat units, workers in particular, in order to be able to speed up construction of improvements. This however is debatable. However there should be some an improvement in improvement construction times as you get better technology. It's silly that building a road in modern age takes as long as in stone age.

7) Why no circumnavigation bonus?? This was a very nice touch in Civ4, and I want it back!

8) I really like city states, but would prefer some more variety in city state traits. For example scientific which give a science bonus, and industrious which give a production bonus. This way they could be more varied.

9) Ability to sell off unneeded/too expensive buildings - now that building upkeep can get very expensive, there should be a way to get rid of unwanted ones

10) This is unlikely to be changed, but I really really hate trade posts! The cottage/hamlet/town system in Civ4 was so much better. Trade posts are ugly, and the main strategy now seems to involve trade post spamming everywhere. In Civ4 at least, you could only build cottages on flat terrain. Something should be done about trade posts.

11) I concur with about posters who want more info in the game. List of wonders and Top 5 cities has been in every civ since Civ1. Why not here? Also, where is the Power Graph? I'd also like more transparency about my economy - what is the total upkeep cost in each city, how much each unit costs to maintain, etc. Also in Military Adviser I want to be able to click on a unit and for it to be selected. Currently nothing happens. Perhaps this is a bug. Another thing that I'd like is stats about how many units I've killed, how many cities razed and captured, how many units I lost.

12) Something that has been mentioned before is that the pathing algorithm is too slow. Even a few hexes away it takes a while to calculate the route (not too mention the trespassing issues). This I think is the main reason why the turn times are long - routes have to be calculated many times during a turn. If the algorithm is optimized, then the game will also be much quicker. I don't see a reason why it should be that much slower than the Civ4 algorithm. If anything, the overall graph is simpler - each vertex has 6 edges rather than 8 (you could move in 8 directions from each Civ4 tiles). Of course 1upt should be handled, but I don't see it being such a problem.

I completely and utterly agree with EVERY SINGLE POINT you have made.

Most notably for me in the lack of cottages in favor of the abysmally dull trading posts, which can be built on tundra, desert, hill, plain, grassland..........

For a game that puts so much focus on the economy I'm surprised that the way of acquiring said economy has been dumbed down so much.

 

[SkepticalSinner]

Great Post, a lot of valid points. Loving Civ V to death, and hoping with these issues fixed, even more so!

 

[moysturfurmer]

I'm not playing this game until great people are era-appropriate.

Sid Meier has BETRAYED me.

 

[Bhruic]

This is actually my main complaint with Civ5 thus far - there are a ton of options, but they're hidden in .ini files. It'd be great if all (well, most) of the options like worker automation, intro video, etc. were included in the in-game option menu.

My biggest complaint is the number of features that have rather obviously been cut out. I'm sure many people are familiar with the religion, but not one of the more important for me. I point towards the fact that games actually store a .Civ5Replay file, but there's no (current) way to view them. That was one of my big pleasures in Civ IV, once I finished a game, watching the replay to both get a sense of how the AI developed, and to reminisce about my own play.

Bh

 

[Sonereal]

Here's another one for AI.

The AI is terrible at defending. It relies on either overwhelming force or city bombards to win a defensive war.

 

[sgrig]

My biggest complaint is the number of features that have rather obviously been cut out. I'm sure many people are familiar with the religion, but not one of the more important for me. I point towards the fact that games actually store a .Civ5Replay file, but there's no (current) way to view them. That was one of my big pleasures in Civ IV, once I finished a game, watching the replay to both get a sense of how the AI developed, and to reminisce about my own play.

Bh

Yeah, I get the impression that Civ5 was rather rushed. They got all the basics, but simply ran out of time for all these extra things. However, currently I'm optimistic that eventually all of this will be put back in.

 

[andrewlt]

I would like to add that Civ 5 gives too many penalties for having a large empire to the list of issues. There should be a penalty for spamming a lot of underdeveloped cities. However, past a certain point, investing in a new city that I would like to grow should never be a penalty. It defeats the purpose and the enjoyment many people get out of a Civ game.

Right now, building a new city that I would like to grow to size 10+ or 20+ is a happiness sink. There just aren't enough happiness buildings and the latter ones give out more and more maintenance and need more and more production for the same or even less happiness. Going for a domination victory, it's actually better to raze off every single non-capital city since those cities will usually be a game-long penalty.

The only viable strategy for annexing conquered cities is the one where you ignore happiness entirely and make up for the production penalties by focusing on gold.

 

[Theodorick]

About the AI choosing a tile when culture expands the borders. Did the tile with 1P have a forest on it? Or was it behind a hill? Culture expands naturally to the lowest and least obscured areas first. So culture likes to expand into the ocean and lakes, then open fields, then forest, then hills, and finally mountains. It gives a bit of priority to resources, but not enough to take a series of mountains over a coast tile.