Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game III: Citizens' started by FionnMcCumhall, Nov 3, 2003.
oh no not the dreaded capitol prvince suggestion, assuiming thats what your talking about donsig
Really, I do like the idea of electing one cartographer and letting him handle the work. All I'd want to see in this office would be border definition capacites, as well as record-keeping responsibilities.
Here's a random thought...
Why not give this task to the Court? It's not like they do much anyway...
No, that is not what I'm talking about. Here is what I am talking about: say we have a capitol and 5 core cities. Traditionally these would all be in one province. I'm suggesting that each of these cities form the basis of different provinces. Any other cities added to these provinces would be further from the capital and corrupt. Rather than ending up with one productive province and 5 non-productive provinces we'd have 6 provinces of more or less equal productivity.
Another possibility would be to have a relatively fixed number of governors and divide up the cities amongst them sequentially - no borders required, just 1st city goes to Governor #1, 2nd city goes to Governor #2, etc....
This may create some major headaches later on in the game when we have many, many cities and people are trying to remember which governor is in charge of which city. Nonetheless, it would help divide up the number of productive cities quite evenly amongst the governors.
I like the diversity of some of the ideas presented here, but I still think that there is no better way to define provinces than to go by natural borders. I believe this law still exists in the DG2 CoL. I suggest we try to bring it along.
One thing we don't know with certainty yet is what our leadership structure is going to look like. And if we plan to put this under the responsibility of an elected official, then that is the issue we need to resolve first.
I think we're vehemently agreeing on that part. Starting with a geometric grid allows the initial decisions on which cities go in which provinces to occur even before we have explored the land. Can't get much quicker than that...
And if people want the grid to be modified to have the border land on a river or mountain range, it can always be fixed up later, as long as no cities change provinces.
Additional thoughts on the core wedge concept: Once the FP is built, maybe more wedges would be needed. Additional provinces for conquered lands would likely be needed, but this would at least get us by the initial startup phase.
I beleve we should do what was done in Demogame 1. Is to create a set of Pre-defined Provance borders. Though it would be a challenge in the beguinning of the game since we have unexplored areas. But once we discovered enough land or aquired maps, then we can sit down and discuss the pre-defined provance borders.
The current system is fine the way it is. Really and truly, it is. The problem is not with the system or with the assignment of responsibility, but in finding somebody willing to actually do the work.
Having run the Cartographic Office in DG2, I can say that the map making requirements for the demogame are rather time consuming. It's not difficult to draw maps. It just takes a lot of time, particularly when you start adding on requests for close-ups of each province, and landmarks, and borders of foreign nations (which can change from turn to turn due to the cultural expansions around the world), and just about everything else that someone can think of.
I also think the impetus to have these provinces defined immediately is a little misdirected. For the better part of the entire first term, we're going to be exploring and mapping the world around us (especially if we use Conquests to play DGIV). We probably won't even know the best locations for our first 5 cities for most of Term 1, let alone where we intend to put our first 10-15. Do we really need to have provinces established with only a few cities on the map?
Ultimately though, it still comes down to finding someone to do the work, and I doubt that this discussion will provide us with a better solution to that problem.
There is not that much work involved. All we really need to know is which cities are in which provinces.
I think that the time-consuming nature of the old cartographic office isn't what were aiming for, FortyJ. Maps would simply be added as provinces were added. National maps could be updated as the 'province master' pleases.
I do believe keeping our current system of province borders would work. Following the terrain's features allows the individual provinces to create their own character, similar to Asphinixia of DG1.
Any other featureless borders would be just plain dull.
You know guys, it does not matter whether we use geometric thing-a-ma-bobs or natural features or what have you. The trouble in the past is that during times of rapid city building or conquest we do not make provinces fast enough. Can we just invest the initial determination of provincial borders to one official and leave the rest of the esoteric debating for later? Do we really need to decide now - before we even know what size map we'll be on - exactly how we will determine provinces? Are we going to include detailed provincial border setting instructions in our ruleset?
To answer your last question, we may....to some extent. But you are absolutely correct on all counts. This is not a topic that needs to be decided now, and we should have an order put forth(preferably by the President) that will determine cities under a Governor's control. The actual borders can be worked out later.
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