Diety Gameplay

[comatosedragon]

I just won my first deity game the other day (after three unsuccessful tries). I won by Diplomacy (completely by accident). I had been doing it for a HOF game and later found out that even by not using or having any DLC civs in my game, Japan built the DLC wonders, thus negating my effort.

Anyway, my plan on all attempts was a cultural victory with France. I got completely owned the first try. The second try, America (uncle moneybags) pulled off a Diplo win about 10-12 turns before my last policy. In my last game, Japan built the UN, but fore some reason never allied himself with any city states. So I was about 7 turns from my last policy when I see that a UN vote will come in 10 turns. Slam on the brakes, switch everything over to gold production, on the off chance I can buy a few of the CS's. Still one turn left until the UN vote, and I am allied with all CS's. I figure Japan will swoop in and buy them all this turn (America had done this to me on my previous game). I pour all my money (which is not much, under 10,000) into the city states, and lo and behold - I win a diplo win on the next turn.
Point is this - playing on deity can be a headache, and can often seem like the AI is cheating (especially if just recently moving up a level) -- But in the end, the AI can and will do something stupid, you just have to wait it out and be ready when it happens.

 

[qalsip1977]

I just won my first deity game the other day (after three unsuccessful tries). I won by Diplomacy (completely by accident). I had been doing it for a HOF game and later found out that even by not using or having any DLC civs in my game, Japan built the DLC wonders, thus negating my effort.

Anyway, my plan on all attempts was a cultural victory with France. I got completely owned the first try. The second try, America (uncle moneybags) pulled off a Diplo win about 10-12 turns before my last policy. In my last game, Japan built the UN, but fore some reason never allied himself with any city states. So I was about 7 turns from my last policy when I see that a UN vote will come in 10 turns. Slam on the brakes, switch everything over to gold production, on the off chance I can buy a few of the CS's. Still one turn left until the UN vote, and I am allied with all CS's. I figure Japan will swoop in and buy them all this turn (America had done this to me on my previous game). I pour all my money (which is not much, under 10,000) into the city states, and lo and behold - I win a diplo win on the next turn.
Point is this - playing on deity can be a headache, and can often seem like the AI is cheating (especially if just recently moving up a level) -- But in the end, the AI can and will do something stupid, you just have to wait it out and be ready when it happens.

Another easy tactic when you think you might be able to clinch a diplo win...is get as many of the CS as you can, then declare war on the AI that is fighting you the most of the CS. This blocks peace so the AI can't ally them, and even after peace, it makes them angry with the AI so it costs a LOT more to ally them...

 

[Venger]

qalsip has a smart strategy but that is SUCH a gameplay exploit. Smart indeed, but gamey. I'd like to see the UN vote from a CS weighted toward long term history of that CS - what Civ has he been allied with most often, and when, rather than just

1. Dump Bucket of Money into CS
2. Take UN Vote
3. Profit!

BTB I've won on Deity several times, twice in a Diplo victory. Once was a deliberate strategy on my part as Greece in an OCC, once ANOTHER Civ built the UN and never bothered to buy the CS's - he could have bought them 10 times over. Instead - built the UN and allowed me to win an otherwise unwinnable game - I was badly lagged scientifically as one can get in an OCC.

 

[Talim [own]]

Can you post a save? I'm interested in seeing your technique.

I dont have a ''technique'' or a ''glitch exploit'' I just do what I think is best to do in each situation

 

[Tabarnak]

Please post saves and pictures if you tell that Deity is easy. Players can rarely well survive a DoW around turn 30-35 against hordes of ancient units.

Some of them like to ''cook'' settings...I'm particulary sceptical. Each time someone says this is easy we only see a simple text and no proofs at all.

Play Deity challenges from Red Rover and show us that it's easy to resist a triple Dow with Aztecs or a runaway Roman with Darius(no iron).

 

[Talim [own]]

Not gonna bother prooving myself. I think I will survive if you don't believe me tbh. Actually, I'll see that as a compliment if what I do is so '' great '' that ppl become sceptical about it. I wonder why somebody would be lying about beating diety especially somebody like me who is a total unknown to the forums. So please proceed to not believe me if you wish. Haters gonna hate

I wanted to know if a lot of players were feeling that way. I was hoping that maybe we could have an AI buff in the next patch for diety. +10%more shield when they produce units for example. Looks like I'm gonna be stuck with that easy mode bs forever. It's sad because that game has potential.

I play on marathon... I doubt it change anything at all but that's the only explanation I see. I like to enjoy all the eras. when I wanna play a fast game I play sc2. If your challenge can be played on marathon speed I'll gladly do it if u link me

 

[dexters]

Map types, Civ proximity, terrain all have an impact.

You can fail miserably on one start and excel on another on the same difficulty setting (because difficulty only describes production bonuses - a lot more factors goes into your start). The difference with diety level players is they can make more lemonades and make fewer mistakes. But I find that Civ5 more than any other Civ is heavily biased towards your first 100 or so turns. If you do well and survive an aggressive warmonger/take their cities or gain critical iron resources on an iron dependent strategy, you're on your way.

Conversely if you get pinned in early by terrain or CS, it could close your window as the some other AI quickly gains critical mass and starts to run-away. That limits your victory options immediately. So I find the build 6 warriors>convert to sword strategies fairly deceptive. There are starts where you don't get iron, or only get 2. Recent patching have made it so that there are more spots for iron but a lot of them are in quantities of 2. Used to be you get 4 or 6 routinely but less sources of iron.


On a similar note, the Civs you start with also matter much more now. As certain AI Civs have consistently done well with certain victory conditions.
Haiwatha > Cultural
Alexander/Songhai > Diplomatic *Alexander will also get a big empire/economy if they survive into the late game* The cumulative bonuses from all those CS they can ally almost in perpetuity is enough to overcome a bad start or a few military setbacks in the early game.
Egypt/Persia > Science (by far the hardest condition for the AI to win as neither are strong empire builders and though they can run-away as a science power they usually get dismantled before they can build a spaceship)

 

[qalsip1977]

Please post saves and pictures if you tell that Deity is easy. Players can rarely well survive a DoW around turn 30-35 against hordes of ancient units.

Some of them like to ''cook'' settings...I'm particulary sceptical. Each time someone says this is easy we only see a simple text and no proofs at all.

Play Deity challenges from Red Rover and show us that it's easy to resist a triple Dow with Aztecs or a runaway Roman with Darius(no iron).

I played that GoTW19 with Germany and it's a real lol. My first attempt actually went pretty well, but I was behind the curve for a cultural victory and I knew it, so I called it quits.

I guess it's a blow to my ego for someone to say that Deity is not a challenge. I have been at the top of just about every RTS I've played, been pretty highly world ranked in most of them, so it's hard for me to hear someone say that it's just a piece of cake when I've had my fair share of disappointments. But...I suppose I am pretty good at chess...but no Bobby Fisher...so perhaps I shouldn't get my panties in a bunch too much

 

[Martin Alvito]

I play on marathon... I doubt it change anything at all but that's the only explanation I see. I like to enjoy all the eras. when I wanna play a fast game I play sc2. If your challenge can be played on marathon speed I'll gladly do it if u link me

This is why you think Deity is an auto-win. As with Civ 4, Marathon is not Deity no matter what the settings claim. The game and AI are not balanced around Marathon.

Try playing Deity on Quick or Standard, and I guarantee you that within a few games you'll be pressed to win. If you play well, you will easily win typical Deity settings often, find yourself in a pitched battle sometimes and get hopelessly rolled on rare occasion if enough AIs dogpile you simultaneously in the early going.

 

[Tabarnak]

I have been at the top of just about every RTS I've played, been pretty highly world ranked in most of them, so it's hard for me to hear someone say that it's just a piece of cake when I've had my fair share of disappointments. But...I suppose I am pretty good at chess...but no Bobby Fisher...so perhaps I shouldn't get my panties in a bunch too much

For myself, from the 1400ish hours i played Civ 5 so far, i played maybe 200 of them in sp and 1200 in mp. My cup of tea is definitively more the mp mode than sp.

If you like rankings and compare yourself you should try mp more often. For me, raping a human gives more satisfaction than raping the AI. We have 2 completely different games in the civilization series if you play both modes. It adds to the whole difficulty to master every aspects of both sides at the same time. Being 1st myself for almost 2 years in another competitive PC game from 2004 to 2006, i know what you fell. I don't play ranked ladders in CiV 5 because games may take too much time(i also have a life to live now...a girlfriend to take care, not young anymore, etc). I play for fun(but still like to beat very good players around).

 

[qemist]

For me, raping a human gives more satisfaction than raping the AI.

That's a little distasteful.

 

[Tabarnak]

That's a little distasteful.

 

[Talim [own]]

I played a lot of chess too when I was young. I'm good at sc1/2. I've been ranked 1 in ladder @ Wc3 for like... 3 days xD ? I also play poker for a living... so yeah ive a huge background

Honestly I think it's just random jelly b1tching to say that I win because of marathon

 

[MadDjinn]

I played a lot of chess too when I was young. I'm good at sc1/2. I've been ranked 1 in ladder @ Wc3 for like... 3 days xD ? I also play poker for a living... so yeah ive a huge background

Honestly I think it's just random jelly b1tching to say that I win because of marathon

actually, it's very different.

Marathon + anything = easier than Standard or quick.

the primary reason is that there's more turns of combat available between techs. The AI sucks at it, so the advantage goes to the player.

Great Scientists are more effective, meaning you'll get further ahead since the AI sucks at using them as well.

etc etc.

 

[Ceterius]

This is why you think Deity is an auto-win. As with Civ 4, Marathon is not Deity no matter what the settings claim. The game and AI are not balanced around Marathon.

Don't forget that the player has big advantages on Quick and Standard speed. Much more early gold from selling Open Borders, and the AI's rush is less dangerous.

 

[ColinTH]

I also play poker for a living... so yeah ive a huge background

Isn't Poker a game of bluff, meaning that you are hoodwinking your opponents into believing your down cards are different to what they realy are? If you are playing poker for a living and presumably multi - tabling, how on earth do you find the time to play civ5 marathon speed? This is a discussion forum and with that in mind I just feel it is polite to enlighten the inquisitive (not necesarily non believers) as to what strategies you are using!

Honestly I think it's just random jelly b1tching to say that I win because of marathon

If expert players like Vexing, Martin Alvito and MadDjinn are saying it is easier to win on marathon, then you should believe it!

ceterius.
I would have said the same as you, I also have noticed that rushes are easier to deal with on quick speed. I think the reason behind this is unit movement being the same at all speeds, and on quick speed we can build a unit or two to defend that early rush. As long as we can survive those early rushes then Marathon speed becomes alot easier for the reasons mentioned by MadDjinn.

 

[wannabewarlord]

I played a lot of chess too when I was young. I'm good at sc1/2. I've been ranked 1 in ladder @ Wc3 for like... 3 days xD ? I also play poker for a living... so yeah ive a huge background

Honestly I think it's just random jelly b1tching to say that I win because of marathon

Imo, chess and poker have little in common with Civ5 or the fact why you should be good at it when you're good at those other hobbies. I play chess as well, I play GO, I play poker (not for a living though ) but none of the skills from these games help me much in Civ5. Ok, maybe the general strategic mindset makes it easier to grasp certain concepts, but still...

To come into a place where it is generally accepted that Deity level is difficult and where expert players provide logic and valuable info how certain conditions change the difficulty and then leave statements in the likes of "Deity = easy. Lolz" and "What u say is wrong, because I don't think so" (-> think! not know!) is bound to provoke some reactions.

I am not saying you don't win on Deity, I think nobody is. What interests the folks here is how you do it and yes, maybe backup your claims with a bit more than just "I do what I do and I do it so well", because it is indeed a little insulting to claim everybody else is not getting it. If it is really that easy for you, some tips are surely appreciated and a much more interesting discussion will take place sharing those ideas, strategies and tactics.

Cheers

 

[qalsip1977]

For myself, from the 1400ish hours i played Civ 5 so far, i played maybe 200 of them in sp and 1200 in mp. My cup of tea is definitively more the mp mode than sp.

If you like rankings and compare yourself you should try mp more often. For me, raping a human gives more satisfaction than raping the AI. We have 2 completely different games in the civilization series if you play both modes. It adds to the whole difficulty to master every aspects of both sides at the same time. Being 1st myself for almost 2 years in another competitive PC game from 2004 to 2006, i know what you fell. I don't play ranked ladders in CiV 5 because games may take too much time(i also have a life to live now...a girlfriend to take care, not young anymore, etc). I play for fun(but still like to beat very good players around).

I generally do play MP on just about everything (for a while I was diamond ranked on StarCraft 2) except for Civ games for some reason. I didn't play Civ 4 online much either (I think maybe 1 or 2 games with friends?). Anymore I enjoy the ability to "walk away" from a game. I played WoW for the past 2 years and was ranked in the top on my server for raid progression so, needless to say, I was glued to the computer and had to ask permission to use the bathroom lol. Being able to leave it whenever I want is pretty nice.

All of that being said...I may give it a shot in the near future. I'm sure it's a totally different experience

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The main problem is that the AI is a significant enough constraint to force you down the same limited lines of play over and over.

Unfortunately, that's a problem with strategy gaming against an AI in general.

This sums up the vast majority of strategy AI in all gaming. I'm not sure there's a way around it aside from superior AI strategy becoming cheaper to develop over time (might happen, but don't see any evidence of anyone getting near that).

A lot of this is deliberate design choice however. For example Hiawatha will consistently out-expand Wu. How many games does Wu threaten to win from a position of 1-3 cities? The rare culture win, and only if not intercepted. How many does an AI that's mopped his whole continent? That AI is the consistent main human rival. By adding "variety" in the form of AIs that don't try to play, the end result is some fake difficulty without changing the canned playstyle much.

The truly dynamic strategy games have most of their options be viable at the competitive levels based on situations that can be observed before the player commits. Civ V has flashes of that but way too much linear "always do this". Civ V is not alone in this regard though; the exceptional games that can do that are very rare and I can't think of one that's done it 100% perfectly.

The only "good" AI I can think of right now is the AI in RTS games, but they're not applying strategy so much as having an unbelievable edge in brute force multitasking (AI can register 1000+ apm if it needs it, wasting no actions! That's physically impossible for a human). Even then, people consistently beat those AIs even when they have bonuses...but RTS are rarely made for SP.

That civ V wasn't first balanced for MP is, IMO, somewhat a mistake in design. It wouldn't have really hampered single player (it's not like balanced options prevent the same ponderous AI behavior "flavor" choices, or even hinder them) but would have made the game more dynamic for those learning and those in MP.

Edit: Slower game speeds have made ever iteration of civ in which they exist easier. Marabuse is particularly strong in the recent titles...

 

[Talim [own]]

Isn't Poker a game of bluff, meaning that you are hoodwinking your opponents into believing your down cards are different to what they realy are? If you are playing poker for a living and presumably multi - tabling, how on earth do you find the time to play civ5 marathon speed? This is a discussion forum and with that in mind I just feel it is polite to enlighten the inquisitive (not necesarily non believers) as to what strategies you are using!

Poker is not a game of bluff. I don't get your point, isn't playing poker justify why I've time to play marathon ? I work less time than most people and at home, giving more tmie than most ppl.

Seriously I don't know what to say about strategies. It's like if you asked me : What strategy do you use in chess/Sc2. This question is so huge that I can't really answer it. Maybe if you have more accurate question...

If expert players like Vexing, Martin Alvito and MadDjinn are saying it is easier to win on marathon, then you should believe it!

Okay, possible.