Diety Germany Photojournal (Patch 11-9, Marathon, Continents+)

[YukiN]

Spoiler Turn 277: More ruins :

More ruins to the East. Almost makes me regret not getting embarkation sooner. This is also a nice settle location for later. A city should capture 4 fish and a sheep. Fish tile yields are pretty insane and this might just be a city where I world specialists.

Spoiler Turn 278: Trade Event :

The second option gives markets +1 gold per turn. I take the culture and the gold penalty.

Spoiler Turn 280: Faith Ruins :

"[F]ortells the arrival of a Great Prophet is" very apropos here. That's a nice chunk of Faith and gets me my great Prophet.

Spoiler Turn 281: Great Prophet spawns, still more ruins :

Great Prophet spawns in Hamburg, since it has higher faith generation than Berlin from Uluru. I move him towards Berlin which takes 2 turns (he has to cross the river).

Still more ruins to the East. The island where my scout is on looks like another city spot.

Spoiler Turn 281: Someone founds before me! :

I'm not happy about this, but it is a reflection of how close I've been cutting it.

The ruins gave culture. I find Bucharest and another ruin to the north.

Spoiler Turn 282: I found my religion :

I get my religion on 282. Next post is full update on religion and macro metrics.

 

[YukiN]

Religion and Macro Update

Spoiler Founded Religions :

Despite enhancing, India only has one city following Hinduism. I suppose this is what happens when the first GP is used to enhance rather than convert.

I'm 90% certain Buddhism is Spain now, let's see if I'm right later. Both Spain and Celts have been spreading aggressively. Looks like they have each bought 3 missionaries.

India has chosen 2 yield beliefs. Pretty sure the yield for every follower rather than every 2 is making the difference for the AI here. The buff to inquisition gold may also have encouraged AI to take that belief. Either that or Inda expects a lot of pressure, which makes sense if he is neighbours with Spain and the Celts. He has chosen Way of the Pilgrim as his Founder belief. I'm not sure how much he'll get to spread but we'll see.

I have no clue who founded Confucianism, but it makes sense that Expanse would offer the necessary faith to found. They have chosen Churchs, probably to maximise pressure against the two big spreaders right now. Great Altar suggests he expects war.

The Celts have chosen Theocratic Rule. I wonder if they were the ones who got Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. Their founder belief is Cooperation, which is in general very solid and favours early founders. I would have taken this as India as the earliest founder and with growth synergy, but the AI clearly disagreed.

The Spanish are fully geared for war with God of War, Orders, and Ceremonial Burial. This should be interesting.

Spoiler Available Founder Beliefs :

Spoiler Available Follower Beliefs :

Spoiler Demographics :

Of the civs with Writing, I have the 2nd most number of techs. Right now I have 12 techs against Egypt's 10. Both of us have 4 policies. Of the other indicators, I am notably first in gold. Springtime, markets and workers are making my gold income extremely strong. ToA and Springtime are helping with growth.

No surprise that I'm dead last in military.

There is a snowballing warmonger out there with double my land and population. I have yet to patch in the city RCS fix. I should get on that.

Someone's empire is not happy. At this stage, it's probably prolonged war. It's probably the dying civ coming last on the various metrics.

Now that the details are here, what would you take? I do not feel there is an obvious answer here, and have yet to decide. This is a case of too many good options I think.

As a general comment, I have played extremely greedily, probably the greediest I have ever played at high difficulty, for the simple reason that I can get away with it. Even then it has been risky. The founding of another religion while I was moving a prophet could mean all the religions going in the next few turns. I would not recommend replicating what I do here unless the situation is exactly right.

 

[amateurgamer88]

If you can get away playing greedy, then you should as you are taking advantage of the situation. I'm actually curious when you plan on warring with Egypt. After all, I do believe their bonuses will be greater the longer you wait and you can use more cities.

At this point, I would pick Synagogue or Scholarship for the Follower belief. Synagogue provides your city with a nice production boost but it takes awhile to get that going. Scholarship not only helps you but I feel like it's important to deny another AI from enhancing their religion of picking it. Imagine if the snowballing AI gets it and just gets a bigger science boost.

 

[YukiN]

If you can get away playing greedy, then you should as you are taking advantage of the situation. I'm actually curious when you plan on warring with Egypt. After all, I do believe their bonuses will be greater the longer you wait and you can use more cities.

At this point, I would pick Synagogue or Scholarship for the Follower belief. Synagogue provides your city with a nice production boost but it takes awhile to get that going. Scholarship not only helps you but I feel like it's important to deny another AI from enhancing their religion of picking it. Imagine if the snowballing AI gets it and just gets a bigger science boost.

What would be your choice for 2nd belief and enhancer?

 

[YukiN]

I'm putting this playthrough on hold until the bugs with city defense are resolved. I can afford to wait a few days.

 

[amateurgamer88]

What would be your choice for 2nd belief and enhancer?

That's an interesting question for sure. India has already enhanced so he won't get taking anymore followers. Let's assume that, before you enhance your religion, the last religion is found and the 3 other religions are enhanced. That means that, including your current choice, a total of 5 follower beliefs are taken. If I had the choice, I'd take a belief with yields now and take a building later. I'm pretty sure there will be at least one more building left and, while it's not your first choice, it's still something to spend your faith and a small bonus to your cities.

For enhancer, I don't know how quickly you can get it. If you really focus on it, then you can probably get one that's related to foreign cities as Egypt seems destined to be converted by you. Otherwise, I think I would go either Resilience for cheaper prophets and more holy sites or Clericalism which, while not great, at least builds up on your yields from CS. I don't have a clear answer for the enhancer but those are what I'd go for.

 

[YukiN]

That's an interesting question for sure. India has already enhanced so he won't get taking anymore followers. Let's assume that, before you enhance your religion, the last religion is found and the 3 other religions are enhanced. That means that, including your current choice, a total of 5 follower beliefs are taken. If I had the choice, I'd take a belief with yields now and take a building later. I'm pretty sure there will be at least one more building left and, while it's not your first choice, it's still something to spend your faith and a small bonus to your cities.

For enhancer, I don't know how quickly you can get it. If you really focus on it, then you can probably get one that's related to foreign cities as Egypt seems destined to be converted by you. Otherwise, I think I would go either Resilience for cheaper prophets and more holy sites or Clericalism which, while not great, at least builds up on your yields from CS. I don't have a clear answer for the enhancer but those are what I'd go for.

That is my usual route but the situation I am in have a few interesting points that are making me hesitate. For founder, I can take one of the spreader beliefs since Egypt has no religion, or Divine Inheritance. Divine Inheritance offers great synergy with my UA and a little something for Statecraft, which place yields in my cap.

For follower, I am actually tempted right now to pick 2 buildings if I choose Divine Inheritance, preferably synagogues first and mosques second (I don't think I would get mosques if I do this, but I could be wrong). I don't have rivals to spread against, which gives me more faith to invest in buildings. Each building also has nice yields on construction from expertise, good yields per turn, and % scalers which will be more yields than scholarship later on. Egypt benefits from my religion less and if (when) I capture his cities, having those buildings prebuilt by the AI would be nice. By the time foreign missionaries start arriving, I should have a higher faith income and passive pressure with my buildings compared to scholarship first.

However, this quite different from my usual strategy, so I have reservations. Opinions?

 

[amateurgamer88]

I don't have any numbers but I do have a few things that I'd ask myself if I was in your position. It's obvious that you are going to Statecraft so you are paying the full faith cost for those buildings. Let's also not forget that you will need another Great Prophet to enhance your religion. How long will it take for you to get your two faith buildings up in all of your cities?

In addition, you are probably going to plan spreading your religion so are you going to rely on pressure alone? If not, you will need missionaries and they cost additional faith. The good thing about the yields is that you will be spreading your religion as quickly as possible to reform sooner so you get the benefit in the process as your religion gets to your cities. If you are aiming for the really late game, then this can work (though whether Mosques will remain available is another question).

For me, I like a faith building if I have immediate religious competition. Otherwise, the yields, at least the good ones, go very quickly and grabbing them after getting a building is less likely. Of course, I'm also someone who doesn't always get religion so what do I know.

 

[YukiN]

I don't have any numbers but I do have a few things that I'd ask myself if I was in your position. It's obvious that you are going to Statecraft so you are paying the full faith cost for those buildings. Let's also not forget that you will need another Great Prophet to enhance your religion. How long will it take for you to get your two faith buildings up in all of your cities?

In addition, you are probably going to plan spreading your religion so are you going to rely on pressure alone? If not, you will need missionaries and they cost additional faith. The good thing about the yields is that you will be spreading your religion as quickly as possible to reform sooner so you get the benefit in the process as your religion gets to your cities. If you are aiming for the really late game, then this can work (though whether Mosques will remain available is another question).

For me, I like a faith building if I have immediate religious competition. Otherwise, the yields, at least the good ones, go very quickly and grabbing them after getting a building is less likely. Of course, I'm also someone who doesn't always get religion so what do I know.

That is my primary concern, that 2 buildings would be too slow. Scholarship is strong here and much safer. I'll think about it. In the mean time, other opinions are welcome.

If you are aiming for religion but failing, either more investment is needed or planning to adopt/steal another religion is correct play. The amount of commitment can vary really heavily according to RNG and has to be accounted for. In my case, Uluru gave me 2 shrines worth of faith the moment I settled my 2nd city. Had I not had Uluru, I would still have picked springtime but then beelined markets after calendar. I always aim to found by 600 bc.

Small optimizations can also be made. Take your Austria game for instance. A city like Linz with no hurry to expand can go shrine first. You were really close there and small decisions like this could have made the difference.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

I'm putting this playthrough on hold until the bugs with city defense are resolved. I can afford to wait a few days.

I wouldn't wait. My gut feeling says that fixes won't be savegame compatible.

 

[YukiN]

I've applied the fix for city RCS and continuing this playthrough until Renaissance when gunpowder units arrive. Hopefully the ignore city defence problem will be fixed by then. That particular issue seemed like it goes deeper than a one line fix.

Spoiler Turn 282: Now Head of DenouncingVenice! :

I found DenouncingVenice with Divine Inheritance and Synagogues. I was hesitating between Synagogues and Mosques for my first belief, but I decided on Synagogues on the basis that since I'm taking Statecraft, policies will be a little less important. I expect to miss out on mosques now, but I believe Mandirs should be safe. The AI doesn't seem to prioritize it much.

Spoiler Turn 282: Alexander shows up :

Alexander shows up near KL. This tells me how to get to his continent. He founds on the same turn, taking Council of Elders and Apostolic Tradition.

The demographics show that Alexander has the most soldiers, but he's not first in other metrics.

Spoiler Turn 284: Found Kilimanjaro, Golden Age :

The ruins my scout is on gave me a border expand on my newest city to the North, which helps a big deal. I find Kilimanjaro next to Bucharest. I might want to Citadel that at a future time.

I hit my first golden age from finding the natural wonder.

Spoiler Turn 288: Thinking about Great Library :

I briefly consider starting on Great Library since not many civs have the tech, but that seemed excessively greedy. Recalling that Egypt has Writing, I check his cities. Sure enough, the GL is going up in Thebes.

...which he finishes 2 turns later. The GL lets him catch up to me in tech.

I found Dusseldorf way to the North. I'll include a shot of it later.

Spoiler Turn 292: 5th Policy & Golden Age ruins :

I get about 1000 GAPs from a ruin. I didn't even know that was a thing.

More importantly, I get my city connections policy, bumping my science from 26 to 44. This is a clear demonstration of why culture is so powerful, especially early on.

 

[YukiN]

Spoiler Turn 294: Last religion founded :

Spoiler Turn 315: Overseas expansion :

I expect war with Alexander eventually, and I want some strong naval bases. These are also some pretty strong spots that I don't want stolen from me.

Interestingly, Petra is still not built. The desert tile will be nice for a solar plant eventually.

I also find another spot with decent potential. by setting a tile East of the scout, the city can capture 4 fish and 2 stone. That said, the fish are really far and that makes this place expensive.

Spoiler Turn 318: Teching & Catholicism Enhanced :

I finish Masonry and start teching towards Metal Casting. Iron working will shore up my military and I have iron. Metal Casting is really important for the Colosuss. The Circus Maximus is something I'll build in my cap but I'm not in a hurry.

The Celts enhance early and get Mosques. I was hoping they would grab something else but mosques are just too good.

Spoiler Turn 322: First in food :

I'm first in growth. Fish is really powerful for growth. It also means I need to get more specialist slots to work.

I'm a little uncomfortable about my military so I send my caravan back towards Egypt to keep the peace. It's getting me 2 science and 2 gold a turn, while feeding Egypt 2 science. It's not amazing.

Hannover has been settled West of Bremen. I'm expanding quite aggressively because my happiness can take it. Hopefully, my cities will remain happy after my GA ends.

Spoiler Turn 332: Petra and Hanging Gardens built :

Petra and Hanging Gardens on the same turn is not a common combination.

I find a Greek city next to the GBR. If the Greeks don't have a strong navy, I know what city I want.

I've started on the Terracotta Army in Munich. The city has a barracks and, being landlocked, it doesn't have much to build compared to my coastal cities. That's where I'll put my Heroic Epic after Terracotta.

Spoiler Turn 336: Parthenon goes early :

Parthenon is built really early. This is a big surprise as I'm pretty sure the tech leader only has one more tech than me.

Spoiler Turn 348: Meeting Portugal :

My scout has landed on the Greek shores and gone about exploring the continent. I find the remains of the Portuguese empire. She has been clobbered into irrelevance by Alexander, and her wonder, the Statue of Zeus, is going to end up in Greek hands.

Portugal is head of Confucianism but I don't expect that religion to go anywhere now that Alexander has founded.

I am timing a horseman and a swordsman to finish with my Terracotta.

 

[YukiN]

Spoiler Turn 351: Meeting Spain :

Spain is indeed the head of Buddhism. She is really behind in tech at this point (I had 17 at this point. Even Portugal has 14, courtesy of her UA). This means she probably has been at war with a Northern neighbour. She still has a solid amount of cities left though. Maybe she can recover, as Egypt had.

I start teching Drama and Poetry for the guilds.

Spoiler Turn 354: Terracotta Finished :

I get some culture and one each of warrior, archer, scout, swordsman, horseman. Pretty good value all things considered.

Spoiler Turn 356: Greece peaces with Portugal :

The Greeks and Portuguese make peace. I don't think it really matters with the state Lisbon is in.

I start on the Colossus. As mentioned earlier, the Colossus is very powerful for me. The extra trade route to a city-state means a 5% boost to production in all my cities once I've built the Hanses. I personally feel Hanses should be nerfed. A medieval building that can be built in every city giving 50% production per city by Industrial is not really what I consider balanced, weak early-game or not. That's stronger than some world wonders.

I also meet a Shoshone Pathfinder

Spoiler Turn 356: Meeting the Shoshone :

The Shoshone finish the Roman Forum on the turn I meet them. They are doing very well, tied with the Greeks in points. They were also the ones who built the Pyramids and the Great Light House.

With regard to the Roman Forum, I do not consider it very important right now. Diplo-spam is not going to start till Statecraft and I have bigger priorities, like army and trade routes. The wonder is also highly competitive, and I did not prioritize mathematics this game.

Demographics show the Shoshone as the population and land leader, but they only have 9 cities. The free border expands on settling and UI are showing their power here. Someone has overtaken Alexander in military. That's probably the production leader, who is quite far ahead of me in that department.

Spoiler Turn 360: Bringing you DenouncingVenice+! :

I enhance without any spreading, since I'm going with a super greedy double building build. I end up taking Mandirs as expected and Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy lets me save on spreading, a big chunk of which will be passive. The trade-route boost is quite strong as I will be sending a lot of them out. Converting city-states is quite helpful for reducing influence decay and quests. Clericalism was removed a couple of patches ago. Iconography is still available, but I'll be taking Statecraft, which will sort out my policy requirements for wonders.

Veneration and Inspiration are simply too weak right now. If we are going with each point of faith/culture is worth 2 of other yields, keeping them at 1 per 2 followers and capping them at 5 (half of 10) would be fine. Right now they are pretty much irrelevant.

The Great Mosque has been changed to Sankore, and I'm a little sad that I can't build a mosque in my capital, but I suppose Tradition civs do need it a lot more.

 

[YukiN]

Spoiler Turn 366: Meeting Sweden & Founding of Duisburg :

I meet a Swedish unit and exchange embassies to find his capital. Sweden is the one fighting Isabella, but he doesn't seem to be winning much. The war has dragged both of them down.

I found Duisburg on the same turn. It's not the strongest city but someone is going to build a city there if I don't.

Dusseldorf is also visible here. It's a city with good production and marble. I might need it to help with wonders later on.

Spoiler Turn 370: Meeting the Celts :

I meet the Celts, and they are doing very very well. Their captal is on another Continent together with the Shoshone.

Right now, the civs are divided into two packs, divided by Egypt. Those in front are doing well and pretty much on par. Those behind...not so much. If either Spain or Sweden can somehow win decisively, the winner might be able to catch up as the terrain makes defending against Alexander relatively easy. Egypt itself is recovering with the help of the Great Library and his Cotton monopoly. He is currently swimming in gold. His UB should also be coming up. War is on the horizon.

Spoiler Turn 380: Colossus Finished :

Not much happens for a few turns and the Colossus is completed.

I send the cargo ship to Duisburg with production. The religious pressure is quite strong for this stage in the game. There are three copies of Tea on the map. I'll be making getting a second copy a priority.

Spoiler Turn 381: Friends with Alexander :

Alexander wants to get chummy. I'll accept for now. He probably lacks friends due to his horrendous warmonger score from taking all those Portuguese cities. Nevertheless, he has not been denounced so accepting isn't going to give me a diplomatic penalty with anyone.

Spoiler Turn 383: Tech Update :

I finish currency after Drama and Poetry to get villages. Those tiles are very very strong right now. A single internal trade route, from Cologne to Duisburg, can activate almost all my future villages.

Spoiler Turn 386: Alexander requests for war :

Alexander asks for a joint declaration on Portugal. I accept. Refusing is a big negative modifier and I can get some freebies with my scout.

My scout which had been stuck on this island after the Shoshone city expanded North.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Your empire seems to be doing quite nicely. Your happiness is solid and GPT is pretty good. Your ranking in the world seems quite high too. Who do you think is your biggest threat?

From my experience, Askia normally snowballs out of control. I'm surprised they haven't done so as their UU is extremely powerful. I absolutely hate dealing with Askia as a neighbor in the early game due to that. Looks like they are rather tamed in your game.

 

[YukiN]

Your empire seems to be doing quite nicely. Your happiness is solid and GPT is pretty good. Your ranking in the world seems quite high too. Who do you think is your biggest threat?

Alexander probably. He has beaten Portgual and will get all her land. I don't think the winner between Sweden and Spain can recover before Alexander moves on from Portugal to them. He is very strong and will get stronger. He is also the one most likely to compete with me for city states, since that's what his UA does. I expect the ocean between us to eventually become a warzone and have started setting up.

Another threat is Egypt, not in the sense that he can win but in that he could bog me down enough to make me fall behind. He has Cotton monoply now, so he can purchase a lot of units. Going to fix that once I get Physics and Steel.

Songhai does snowball a bit more in the coming turns, but I don't think he is going to get enough before his bonuses fall off if he doesn't start conquering, which doesn't seem easy with his neighbours. Shoshone are also doing well. I'm not sure what's happening on the other continent but another superpower will likely emerge there. It might even be India, who I have yet to meet.

 

[YukiN]

Spoiler Turn 387: Askia converting those hammers :

Askal finishes Ankor Wat, which pushes him to first place. This game is currently showing a lot of strong contenders.

Spoiler Turn 392: War between Celts and Shoshone :

This war should be interesting. I'll be watching the outcome closely.

And things are not too chummy between the Egyptians and myself.

Spoiler Turn 397: Public Declarations from Greece, starting on Oracle :

Greeces declares protection of 7 city states at once. This is really weird.

In the meantime, I finish my National Epic in Berlin and start on the Oracle. The Oracle is really powerful if you can get it in Medieval and I'll be there once Engineering is teched. 3000 culture and 3000 science for 1000+ hammers is by definition a good deal. If you can get it.

Spoiler Turn 398: Shoshone backstabbed by the Songhai :

I suspect the Shoshone are not coming out on top. No prizes for guessing why.

Spoiler Turn 402: New Island City :

I take the spot on the other side of Ormus. 4 good tiles is enough for now. I am willing to settle a few weaker island cities as I am pretty certain I'll be taking Imperialism.

In the meantime, my scout is keeping a watch on Greece's war on Portugal, grabbing some free gold from the pillages.

Spoiler Turn 403: Catholicism reformed :

The Celts reform their religion. It's about the expected time. Being an early reformation, Mendicancy is quite strong for them.

 

[YukiN]

Spoiler Turn 404: Demographics :

I hit Medieval in 520AD by finishing all Classical Era techs. I am the first to Medieval but I do not consider myself tech leader since I did this by researching the cheapest techs.

There are some very populous civs out there. From what I can tell, Greece, Shoshone and I are in the top 4. Rome has a massive army despite not having much tech. This is the period where his UU comes online. If he is to become a superpower, now is the time, and he seems to be successful given he is first in land. There is a dying civ below even Portugal in stats, probably whoever Rome is killing right now.

Spoiler Turn 404: Greeks reach medieval and enhance religion :

The Greeks are the 2nd to enhance. They take cultural buildings. The reach medieval on the same turn as me.

Spoiler Turn 406: Trade Route to Ormus :

Trade quests are really nice. The instant boost to influence makes the route yield a good amount of culture and science.

I am building a catapult out of Munich as I am planning war with Egypt.

Spoiler Turn 408: A Question of Hygiene :

The second option is 1 happiness per bath at the cost of 3 gold each, which might be decent depending on how much you value happiness. I don't have happiness issues and I can still buy luxes if I need help there. The third option is 1 culture from aqueducts, which maxes out at about 13 right now. I just grab a free Great Prophet and plant him.

Spoiler Turn 409: Askia builds Great Wall :

Askia finishes the Great Wall, his second wonder in a row. The Shoshone are not doing well fighting two powerhouses at once.

Spoiler Turn 411: Rome gets Dye Monopoly :

Rome is doing well. He'll probably snowball from here.

Spoiler Turn 416: Oracle Completed :

I finish Oracle, which gives me the science for Physics and Steel. The Celts and Songhai have also since hit Medieval, but this puts me ahead for now.

I also get my 2nd Statecraft policy. Trade confederacy is the only way I can maintain alliances at this stage in the game since influence decay does not scale proportionally to gamespeed (2/3 of standard at Marathon), but production costs for diplo-units do (3x of standard).

 

[YukiN]

Spoiler Turn 416: Askia builds Alhambra :

Alhambra goes very quickly, as is usually the case. He is however noticeably behind in policies.

Now that my two military techs are done, I denounce Egypt to bait him into declaring war. My trade routes are by now internal with the exception of one to Ormus.

I send an Emissary to Ormus to upgrade our relationship to allies, which is maintained by the influence from the traderoute.

Spoiler Turn 417: Sniping Leiria :

My scout that had been thus far going around killing catapults and pillaging tiles manage to snipe Leiria. I had set up for this the previous turn by hitting it with my scout.

The city is useless, having exchanged hands twice, and I raze it for the warscore.

Ironically, sniping this city from Alexander puts a big positive modifier to "fighting against common enemy" with Alexander.

Spoiler Turn 418: War continues between Spain and Sweden :

This was to be expected. However, I expect Spain to suffer because Alexander is likely to turn to fight her too. Greece already has a foothold on the West of Isabella's empire from taking a Portuguese city. The two Spanish cities settled in the middle of Greece also doesn't help maintain relations. Egypt moved troops to my border the previous turn.

Spoiler Turn 418: War with Egypt :

Egypt declares war on the same turn. Awfully predictable really given the troops he had moved to my borders the previous turn.

Spoiler Turn 419: Knock on effects :

KL, which has been bullied by Egypt millennia ago, rewards me for the war. This also puts a hold to its war with Ormus. The yields are very considerable. I had forgotten about these, or I would have picked Foreign Service after completing the Oracle.

Spoiler Turn 419: Greece gets third monopoly :

Greece gets a perfume monopoly, after his Jade and Gem ones. The Jade monopoly together with his religion should be giving him lots of Golden Ages.

Spoiler Turn 421: Portugal sues for peace :

Despite my warscore of 70, Portugal has nothing to give. Oh well.

What would you consider the most important medieval techs and wonders?

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

I like machu pichu for wide empires. The gold bonus is modest but scales well through the eras, it helps make a weaker city surrounded by mountains more on par with the rest of your empire, and it is not that contended from the AI (and you can see exactly who has the potential to build it if they do go for it). Frankfurt would be an excellent choice.

You should be considering researching techs that award you more trade routes as well, then beeline banking for Hanse. Ideally you’ll have all your trade routes sent to CS’s by that point, so you get the max immediate production bonus in the cities you build it in. That modifier is Germany’s bread and butter...