Different bonuses from religion

[ViterboKnight]

Ok, it's another neverending thread! But this time, it's a bit different.

I suggest to prepare seven sets of bonuses, and then randomly assign those to the seven religions. Each set should include some disadvantages as well, so the "free religion" doesn't become useless, but just an alternative.

It might be a "pacific" set of bonuses, that could improve relations with other leaders, and double the war weariness. (It's just an example, so I can better explain my idea). Also, it might be a "monetary" set of bonuses, that could increase the gold bonus from markets and grocers, while reducing the trade routes with other civs.

When the game begins, each set will randomly be assigned with the religions. So the "Pacific" religion could be Christianism, while the "Monetary" one could be Induism. The assegnations should be revealed to all players, so everyone could decide which religion better suits him, and this will vary every game.

 

[Bino]

I fear that religion is too "dangerous" topic for Firaxis to modify it...being atheistic (spelling?) i find it right as it is now, hope my point is clear.

 

[L4zXX0r]

Come on, we all want religions based on age old stereotypes.... Well I do. I just won't say what they are. Then again, I could care less about others feelings when I play the game single player. Also, not following any of the 7 religions helps me be completely desensitized to being offended.

 

[toft]

I'm sorry if I'm hurting anyones feelings, but religion hasnt really had any effect other than cultural and control. So I think the current gamesettings are pretty good. The current settings provide culture, and a lesser degree of control with other countries with the same state-religion.

 

[Love]

I'm sorry to hurt your feeling, but it did...

 

[Draknith]

I hope you're talking about the game, because religion has done much more for everyone than just cultural and control. religion mainly has helped humankind develop a concept of the omnipitant being. Which without we would have not developed our moral and ethical standards as without gods, or God, we are bound by no laws other than what we desire.

 

[toft]

I hope you're talking about the game, because religion has done much more for everyone than just cultural and control. religion mainly has helped humankind develop a concept of the omnipitant being. Which without we would have not developed our moral and ethical standards as without gods, or God, we are bound by no laws other than what we desire.

So you are calling me a heathen and a criminal with no morals? IMO religious people was and is the romantic or lesser educated, that lingers in the past.

Religion was a very powerful tool in the medieval ages, to help gain some sort of control with "the people". The religion of today is still used to control the generel public. Take a look at the middle east - a little group of deranged islamist encourage people of same faith to kill Americans and their allies, and the more threatened the US gets, the more religious it gets. Its just a tool...

Think about it, if every single individual in the world had the same faith, then I think the whole concept of belief, religion and god had been forgotten a looong time ago.

The Bible, The Koran or whatever... they are almost the same. Guidelines to morals and ethics. If Harry Potter was published 1000 years ago, then it would have been a religion too

As you might have concluded by now, I dont believe in any religion. But I wouldnt call myself an atheist, because thats a word that assumes there is a god. I respect people that have a religion, but I get pissed when people wanna tell me what to believe or not to believe.

 

[Enigma256]

I fear that religion is too "dangerous" topic for Firaxis to modify it

but they did something like that with the Corporations.

i can live with that, religions are really just too sensitive and would cause more trouble than it is worth.

The Bible, The Koran or whatever... they are almost the same.

the Jewish Bible is the Oldest, Christians have the Jewish Bible, and then some more about Jesus and his pals, the Koran is the Christian Bible with further additions.

knowing that i really can't understand all the fighting in the Middle East, where all these religions clash.

 

[ttornqvist]

I think that if company wants to keep its owners happy (making money, lots of it), it is not willing to take risk with religions. I was supprised that they even intorduced them in the first place as being so difficult subject. And I am happy that they did, but I am not expecting them to make any differencies between them, even random.

I like the idea, and I would love to see it in the game, but I doubt it will become a reality.

 

[AfterShafter]

The religion of today is still used to control the generel public. Take a look at the middle east - a little group of deranged islamist encourage people of same faith to kill Americans and their allies, and the more threatened the US gets, the more religious it gets. Its just a tool...

Careful, that's akin to saying that the free market is just a tool for ripping people off, or serves no purpose but to make sure the poor stay poor and the rich get rich. Gross oversimplification.

Religion is used by certain groups to leverage control over populaces... On the other hand, it serves many different roles as well in a small community and on a personal level. Giving people common ground, a feeling of comfort, a forum in which to organize community activity, and many other instances. Religion is used as a political tool, but to say that's all it does shows that you are looking at it pretty one dimensionally.

PS - I'm not religious in any way, shape, or form. I just try not to reduce a multifaceted phenomenon into nothing but a political power play.

 

[Dominico]

When i got the game i felt a kind of sadness that in the world we live in today a game manufacturer dare not make a comment on any single religion.

It would have been easy to give one religion military bonus, or another happiness bonus.

The thing I found most shocking when i opened the instructions was the pre emptive apology about religion!!! Hey we really dont want to hurt feelings, so we left religion faceless, hope you are not offended, really! Sorry!

Its sort of works now though once you have played it, because you will still have wars fueled with religion as an excuse and still have alliances through religion. Interesting how it plays out and which religions end up being the "villains" to you in the civ world.

Just religions all feel a bit faceless now in game.

 

[toft]

Wouldnt the world be a better place without religions?

 

[travathian]

I suggest to prepare seven sets of bonuses, and then randomly assign those to the seven religions. Each set should include some disadvantages as well, so the "free religion" doesn't become useless, but just an alternative.

I propose that when you found a religion, you chose which actual religion you want, and then you also chose from 1 of 7 sets of bonuses. Next time a religion is founded, they chose from the remaining 6, etc etc. The bonuses are in no way tied to the religion, just like the individual techs are no longer tied to a specific religion. Said bonuses only work while you are running that religion and you control the religious capitol.

This provides an advantage to getting an early religion in that you get first dibs on which one you want. It also offers the opportunity, if your overall game strategy changes, to beeline for the next religion if one of the remaining sets would be better suited. It also might prove to be another incentive for war if a neighbor founds a religion and choses a bonus set that you find attractive.

 

[gunter]

The Bible, The Koran or whatever... they are almost the same. Guidelines to morals and ethics. If Harry Potter was published 1000 years ago, then it would have been a religion too

Some religious women/men are really important to help who is needing of mental and physical support,I admire them,but they are always the ones who are not " ranked ",on the contrary " directors " of religious work like high level managers,they lead their companies and think only about making lot of money.

 

[Ahimsadharma]

Well i dunno just how exactly you are going to give religions a realistic feel without causing a lot of controversy.

If religions were to reflect uniqueness in Civ4 terms, then they'd go something like:

Buddhism : +2 happiness bonus, -5 happiness penalty whenever initiating war, + 10% research bonus, -2 happiness penalty to all civs using slavery & serfdom

Hinduism : +2 happiness bonus, +1 free military promo with caste system, +10% commerce bonus, -2 happiness penalty whenever initiating war, +2 happiness bonus when defending

Taoism : +2 happiness bonus, + 20% commernce with environmentalism, + 2 free military promo with pacifism

Confucianism : + 2 happniess bonus, + 20% commerce bonus, +5% corruption penalty per city, Heriditary rule & Vassalage give + 1 military promo each

Judaism : +2 happiness bonus, -50% research, + 10% commerce bonus, +100% war-weariness to oppositition civ when attacking, + 2 military promo with Theocracy & Temple of Solomon, +40% research and -20% commerce as vassal. With Apostolic palace, no civ with same religion can declare war when this civ is fighting a non-Judaic civ.

Christianity: -50% research, +25% research with mercantalism & nationhood, + 1 hammer in all worked tiles when fighting non Christians. Free religion gives -20% culture and +30% research. Half cost of stealing technology. Can launch Crusade ( upto 15 stack army against non-Christian states but cannot control which cities attacked by Crusade stack) 1 Great merchant if first to : Cistine Chapel & Guilds, 1 Great Scientist with Code of Laws.

Islam : -50% research,reveals all tech researched until Islam founded to the founder, +50% espionage bonus,+10% commerce, -2 happiness to other religions, half cost of stealing technology. Can launch Jihad ( upto 15 stack army against hindu, buddhist, tao & confucians only, can control cities attacked but conquered city population falls to 50% when rebellion is over)

Tee hee. That would be fun. But i am afraid, far too controversial to sell- many countries will just ban Civ4 for propagating religious tensions.

 

[hossam]

-50 percent research is way to big

 

[Ahimsadharma]

Hossam- it was just an idea. Feel free to adjust.Anyways, i've modified the last 3 religions a bit.

 

[Yzman]

First of all, if the penalities are that tough,why would anyone ever want those religions? I would never want any of them like that....

Religion should not be something you switch because of a benefit. It works perfectly in the game right now as is with no different benefits.

In all actuality, all religions do the same thing and narrowing them that much in the game would hinder them I feel.

 

[Antilogic]

Well i dunno just how exactly you are going to give religions a realistic feel without causing a lot of controversy.

If religions were to reflect uniqueness in Civ4 terms, then they'd go something like:

Buddhism : +2 happiness bonus, -5 happiness penalty whenever initiating war, + 10% research bonus, -2 happiness penalty to all civs using slavery & serfdom

Hinduism : +2 happiness bonus, +1 free military promo with caste system, +10% commerce bonus, -2 happiness penalty whenever initiating war, +2 happiness bonus when defending

Taoism : +2 happiness bonus, + 20% commernce with environmentalism, + 2 free military promo with pacifism

Confucianism : + 2 happniess bonus, + 20% commerce bonus, +5% corruption penalty per city, Heriditary rule & Vassalage give + 1 military promo each

Judaism : +2 happiness bonus, -50% research, + 10% commerce bonus, +100% war-weariness to oppositition civ when attacking, + 2 military promo with Theocracy & Temple of Solomon, +40% research and -20% commerce as vassal. With Apostolic palace, no civ with same religion can declare war when this civ is fighting a non-Judaic civ.

Christianity: -50% research, +25% research with mercantalism & nationhood, + 1 hammer in all worked tiles when fighting non Christians. Free religion gives -20% culture and +30% research. Half cost of stealing technology. Can launch Crusade ( upto 15 stack army against non-Christian states but cannot control which cities attacked by Crusade stack) 1 Great merchant if first to : Cistine Chapel & Guilds, 1 Great Scientist with Code of Laws.

Islam : -50% research,reveals all tech researched until Islam founded to the founder, +50% espionage bonus,+10% commerce, -2 happiness to other religions, half cost of stealing technology. Can launch Jihad ( upto 15 stack army against hindu, buddhist, tao & confucians only, can control cities attacked but conquered city population falls to 50% when rebellion is over)

Tee hee. That would be fun. But i am afraid, far too controversial to sell- many countries will just ban Civ4 for propagating religious tensions.

Did you actually try to consider the effects this would have on the game, or did you simply spew out lists of numbers and buzzwords from the game?

If anything, I would suggest you keep with the "less is more" philosophy and tone some of these down. Firaxis has done a good job with stuff like Civics, where just about every option only has one or two benefits (and one, if any, drawbacks). This makes it simple to learn and easy to use, and doesn't require utterly absurd calculations whenever you are about to change civics (or, in this case, religions).

 

[Ahimsadharma]

Did you actually try to consider the effects this would have on the game, or did you simply spew out lists of numbers and buzzwords from the game?

No, i did not really think on the effect it'd have on gameplay, since with so many pros & cons per religion, it is impossible to tell unless you actually TRY playing with those modifiers on. I made it up (just for fun, FYI, nothing serious) just trying to fit those religions & their historical traits into civ-4 gaming terms & effects.

But i do not see whats the problem anyways- i think every religion has its pros and cons objectively speaking.
Playing with 50% research handicap isn't so bad, particularly if you PICK a civ with Philosophical. Plus ability to crusade & jihad means you can easily become a huge military empire who's technologically backwards but then you can use your superior whack power to BULLY technology out of smaller more advanced civs. But as i said before, you can't really tell the effect overall on gameplay unless you try them out since there are so many traits inter-mingling with each other.