Dig for Victory with a real legionary!!

[achilleszero]

I have, what I hope is, a simple question. I am interested in replacing the vanilla Praetorian with this unit in my mod (and giving it the ability to construct roads and forts) but I also want to change one of the units to a "Centurion" (basically the regular Praetorian with the plume and a cape). If I added that unit to this could I give it this unit's KFM or do I have to move it over? Also would it be possible to make the "Centurion" unit in the group NOT "build" the road/fort and act as almost a supervisor? It is fine if he just stands there idle, but I guess my real question is whether or not this will screw something up in the game or cause a crash?

Just giving the regular praet model this new kfm seems to greatly distort it. So you should probably paste the praet mesh on to the Legionary's.

To make your centurion just stand there while the others build, the easiest thing to do would be to replace the centurion's build kf's with its normal idle kf and change the names accordingly. (I was just messing with this unit, so I found alot of its idiosycrancies. Also I did a slight reskin,mostly just a more detailed shield, if you want it.)

 

[The Capo]

Just giving the regular praet model this new kfm seems to greatly distort it. So you should probably paste the praet mesh on to the Legionary's.

To make your centurion just stand there while the others build, the easiest thing to do would be to replace the centurion's build kf's with its normal idle kf and change the names accordingly. (I was just messing with this unit, so I found alot of its idiosycrancies. Also I did a slight reskin,mostly just a more detailed shield, if you want it.)

For the sake of keeping this easy to follow I'll refer to the unit I want to add to the group as "the Centurion."

So you are basically saying to take the Praetorian mesh and replace this Legionairy with that one? I'd also like to add the cape (I have a Praetorian unit with a cape). After I do that, if I want him to be idle I just copy over the idle animations and rename them to the build animations so when I order the unit to build a road or fort the two other Legionaries will work while the Centurion stands there? That's basically what I want to achieve.

And of course I'll take a new reskin, I'm always interested in your work.

 

[zenspiderz]

Just a suggestion. Your centurion could use its own armature and kf files if you use copy and rename its idle files for use in the ranged animations as well as the fort/road building anims. It would save a lot of work although the centurion would be doing a lot of supervising.

 

[achilleszero]

For the sake of keeping this easy to follow I'll refer to the unit I want to add to the group as "the Centurion."

So you are basically saying to take the Praetorian mesh and replace this Legionairy with that one? I'd also like to add the cape (I have a Praetorian unit with a cape). After I do that, if I want him to be idle I just copy over the idle animations and rename them to the build animations so when I order the unit to build a road or fort the two other Legionaries will work while the Centurion stands there? That's basically what I want to achieve.

And of course I'll take a new reskin, I'm always interested in your work.

That and/or what zenspider also said.

You mention adding a cape to the centurion. I have added or replaced several capes to units. Many of the capes on custom units are just stiff meshes, as in they just hang there and dont move. Unless they use an animation of a unit with an animated cape. I could probably add that to the Legionary's kfs after you decide what your doing with the centurion.

 

[The Capo]

I have to go to pub trivia in a minute, so I'll take a look at all of this when I get home (unless I'm drunk, which is a strong possibility) and see what options I have in front of me, if you want to animate the cape that would be awesome!

 

[The Capo]

I was thinking of using Aranor's Praetorian Reskin as the "Centurion." If you wanted to try and work on that for the cape. But again, I am not really familiar with editing units and stuff so I'm not sure which method would work best for what I am trying to do.

 

[achilleszero]

I was thinking of using Aranor's Praetorian Reskin as the "Centurion." If you wanted to try and work on that for the cape. But again, I am not really familiar with editing units and stuff so I'm not sure which method would work best for what I am trying to do.

Yeah thats an awesome looking unit. I will probably rip a cape of a unit and make it look like that one, because the one in the pic probably doesnt have a skin instance and I have no idea how to rig from scratch. So I will add the cape animation after you have the exact animation files you will be using. Once your done post whatever kf's you will be using so I can attatch the proper nodes.

 

[Ekmek]

rigging units is easie than LHs. my LH guide lays the basic for units too.

 

[The Capo]

Basically I am alittle drunk right now so I probably do this tomorrow. But what do you think is the best way to test this out? use a regular praetorian and try what zsenspirerz said or what? sorry I dont know much about this stuff.

 

[achilleszero]

Basically I am alittle drunk right now so I probably do this tomorrow. But what do you think is the best way to test this out? use a regular praetorian and try what zsenspirerz said or what? sorry I dont know much about this stuff.

It all depends on exactly what you want it to do and when. Do you want it to attack like a normal praetorian while the other guys are throwing thier pilums? Do you want it to do the exact same attack as the legionary, as in pilums at ranged enemy units and swords with melee enemy units? I think the simplest thing to do would be to copy over Aranor's praet mesh to the Legionary skeleton so that he has the ability to build, because I have no idea what will happen if one of the units in a mesh cant perform an action the other 2 are trying to do.

rigging units is easie than LHs. my LH guide lays the basic for units too.

Unfortunately I have never got Blender to work. I wasted several weeks of my life trying to get it to work. So now I just settle with the uber complicated 3dMax. Which of course nobody here uses anymore, so can never answer any questions I ask.

 

[The Capo]

Alright I just watched a movie and sobered up a bit, basically I have no idea. What I have done with many of the other unit mesh groups so far is quite varied. Some of them have three different units, some have two of the same and one that functions, at least aesthetically (did I speill that right? ) as the Officer or Commander (in these cases they are called ART_DEF_UNIT_SOMETHING_OFFICER_CIV) its a bit of a mix. But I basically addressed each civ differently, and tried my best to emulate what, I think at least, is their "culture" in the sense that I know it.

I have also altered some of the UUs in the mod, and the Roman Praetorian (which will be renamed Legion in my mod) will have the ability to build roads and forts, I am thinking of decreasing their strength, or increasing their cost, or something to make up for the added bonus. I also think that a Centurion (or Patrician Roman commander in any case) should be present to represent the way Legions were raised (at least in Republican times), and commanded (in both Republican and Imperial periods). So I figured if tribes like the Celts and Chinese get Officer units in the mesh group (there are others of course, but it would be a waste of time to list them, although I kind of did that by writing this comment in) the Romans certainly should have them. So basically I don't know. I suppose the EASIEST method would be to have the "Centurion" in the group also help build the improvements, throwing a pilum though... not too sure that would be the role of a Centurion. So I guess I am basically asking for some type of feedback on what you think I should attempt to do here. I guess ultimately what I want is for the Centurion to attack with his gladius, the others should throw pilums and then join him. During the building phase I could go either way, but I suppose it would be best that the Centurion stood idle, or took on a fortified pose. I don't know how possible this is, or why I bothered to write so much in response to a simple question... maybe I didn't sober up that much...

 

[achilleszero]

Alright I just watched a movie and sobered up a bit, basically I have no idea. What I have done with many of the other unit mesh groups so far is quite varied. Some of them have three different units, some have two of the same and one that functions, at least aesthetically (did I speill that right? ) as the Officer or Commander (in these cases they are called ART_DEF_UNIT_SOMETHING_OFFICER_CIV) its a bit of a mix. But I basically addressed each civ differently, and tried my best to emulate what, I think at least, is their "culture" in the sense that I know it.

Thats cool, Im doing kinda the same thing in LoR. Trying to make the UU's look really unique. I just got done adapting Bakuels immortal so that I have Immortal Swords and Spears in a mesh. And there are 5 in the mesh so that they act just like they were named for, once one is killed theres another to take its place.

I have also altered some of the UUs in the mod, and the Roman Praetorian (which will be renamed Legion in my mod)

Yep, phungus renamed them to Legion as well, also what about renaming the phalanx to Hoplite?

I guess ultimately what I want is for the Centurion to attack with his gladius, the others should throw pilums and then join him.

Not going to happen like that. The Legionary has to act like Ranged to use thier pilums at all. So imagine how the Longbow acts. The Legionary only throws thier pilums when attacking other ranged. When fighting at melee they do this crazy switching between stabbing with the sword and stabbing with pilum. So unless you want to do some serious reworking of the attack animations or you dont car that your centurion is fighting the horde alone, it will have to be different. You should install the Legionary in game to atleast get a better idea what your up against. WB a bunch of them and then have them attack both melees and ranged.

During the building phase I could go either way, but I suppose it would be best that the Centurion stood idle, or took on a fortified pose. I don't know how possible this is, or why I bothered to write so much in response to a simple question... maybe I didn't sober up that much...

I think this will be easy actually. You just need to rename an idle/fortify animation for each of the build animations. So in essense his build animations will just be to idle/fortify.

 

[The Capo]

I think you misunderstood what I meant, or I mis-wrote (what does that mean?) it. When I said the Centurion attacks with his Gladius and the Praets attack with their Pilums and then join him I meant that they fight against the enemy with the Pilums first WHILE the Centurion attacks him.

I have actually seen this happen with other combos I've made (Persian spearmen, and others that I can't remember right now) where a unit will engage directly while the others attack with ranged weapons. I can produce a screenshot at some point soon, but its possible. I want to do something similar with the Holkan, there is one in the database where there are spear-throwing Holkans rather than spear-thrusting Holkans, and I wanted to create a mix of those units to make it more interesting. Besides that to me it seems reasonable that a nation like the Maya, who relied upon captured men in order to sacrafice to their gods, would have to kill some enemies in order to gang upon individuals to capture them for sacrafice. I don't really have an historical basis for this concept, but I'd imagine this would be the best way to both maintain an army (three men attacking one at once are more likely to survive than three attacking one at different times, aka the comical "ninja style") while capturing sacraficial prisoners. Surrender in their culture was looked down upon, and considering the religious ramifications probably worse than surrender in any western conceptualization.

I hope to get a good result here, worst case scenario I'll just reskin one of the Praetorians to Amra's version, best case; I can figure this out. It seems you use five units in normal mesh groups, so maybe this will be beneficial to LoR too.

EDIT: I don't want to get arguments about the concept of a Nation BTW. The Maya were a nation in the sense that I learned it studying in college. I have a degree in Political Science by the way. As far as I know a "Nation" is a group of people with a shared language, culture, religion, and/or origin. The only reason I say this is because I got a lot of crap for referring to a civ as a "tribe" one time and I was merely referring to them as such because I have been playing civ since the original game, in which they were called "tribes."

 

[achilleszero]

I think you misunderstood what I meant, or I mis-wrote (what does that mean?) it. When I said the Centurion attacks with his Gladius and the Praets attack with their Pilums and then join him I meant that they fight against the enemy with the Pilums first WHILE the Centurion attacks him.

Ok thats totally plausible, Ive done that before as well. I misunderstood, thought you wanted something different. Then It has become easier.

1st: just put the Legionary in the artdfines etc as per the instructions that the OP includes in DL.(you have to make it act as ranged and there is an effect to stick in effect infos)

2: Copy your centurion mesh onto Legionary skeleton, and install him except do not make him ranged like the Legionary. This will insure him to only use his gladius.

3: Make copies of his idle/fortify and rename them as the build animation. Its may possible to skip number 2 & 3 depending if the game will allow you to have a guy that doesnt build in the same mesh with ones that will. But even if it does then you will not be able to control what it looks like during the build animation. So following all the steps is pretty much a lock.

EDIT: I don't want to get arguments about the concept of a Nation BTW. The Maya were a nation in the sense that I learned it studying in college. I have a degree in Political Science by the way. As far as I know a "Nation" is a group of people with a shared language, culture, religion, and/or origin. The only reason I say this is because I got a lot of crap for referring to a civ as a "tribe" one time and I was merely referring to them as such because I have been playing civ since the original game, in which they were called "tribes."

Have you finished sobering up yet? At any rate who the heck was giving you crap for calling them a tribe? Ill call them whatever I want. People need to stop worrying about being PC.

 

[The Capo]

Thanks for the help, and sorry if it was a bit difficult to understand.

I was still drinking bourbon while I was writing all of that, but I did sober up a little bit after watching a movie.

Yeah, some idiot was offended by my use of the word tribe, I was referencing an African civ I was making for a module and the person thought I was being condescending by calling them a tribe. But I usually call the civs tribes, its an old habit from my days playing the original civilization (in which they were called tribes and not "civs").

 

[Ekmek]

Unfortunately I have never got Blender to work. I wasted several weeks of my life trying to get it to work. So now I just settle with the uber complicated 3dMax. Which of course nobody here uses anymore, so can never answer any questions I ask.

when did you try last time. the new blender is easier to get the nifs to work. 2.43 was just awkward.

 

[achilleszero]

when did you try last time. the new blender is easier to get the nifs to work. 2.43 was just awkward.

Probably about 5 months ago. It just gave me an error to check concole every time I loaded a nif. At the time I had the most recent scripts, reinstalled it several times, and still get slightly different errors every time. I did get a battleship to load one time. And to be honest, even if i ever did get it to work, I just loathe the idea of having to learn another graphics program completely from scratch.

 

[Ekmek]

yeah that sounds like the old blender. well my guide is there and capo and i can help if you ever want to check it out

 

[The Capo]

Alright here are the files. There are two folders in this pack. One has the Legionairy and the Centurion nifs both in them. I have moved the "Centurion" over to the Legionairy but have not attached the cape. The other folder, I think I called it "Praetorian" is just the reskinned Praetorian with a cape, it has the regular animations whereas the other one, theoretically, has the new animation. I tried moving the cape over but it didn't transfer correctly. Just want to know if you can take a look at this. Thanks in advance.

 

[achilleszero]

Alright here are the files. There are two folders in this pack. One has the Legionairy and the Centurion nifs both in them. I have moved the "Centurion" over to the Legionairy but have not attached the cape. The other folder, I think I called it "Praetorian" is just the reskinned Praetorian with a cape, it has the regular animations whereas the other one, theoretically, has the new animation. I tried moving the cape over but it didn't transfer correctly. Just want to know if you can take a look at this. Thanks in advance.

Sure will look at them and start with the cape. Another thing I was thinking of was the sideways crest that centurions wore. Would you want that too?