Dilemma

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BorderPatrol

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I am afraid that I have kicked too much ass here in GOTM5. It is 620 AD and there is only one other city left but I am only in the Renaissance age and only have one size 8 city and 38 cities total.

Should I leave that city alone and try to cover the map? Or do I go ahead and take them out? Which gives a better GOTM score?

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[This message has been edited by BorderPatrol (edited June 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by BorderPatrol (edited June 02, 2001).]
 
wow

Well I think you should save and then take it.'

Just to see your score. If it is low then go back and build an army of engineers and then as many cities as you can.

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This is crazy! How did you finish it so early?
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Well, it's not "finished" until I take the last city. Looking over the scores form the previous months GOtM I noticed that the early finisher isn't necessarily the winner.

Wherein lies my dilemma. At this point, what should I do in order to get a high GOtM score?

And as to how got to this point so early, well it's prince level so in going after the expansionist/militaristic strategy it's easy to kick the ai from here to Timbuktu really early. But early isn't better, is it?

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Yeah....that's pretty quick!

I'm in 1320AD now and I have a few cities left to take. Aztec and Carthage.

But what REALLY pisses me off is that I haven't finished any of the GOTM's (Except for number 1) and I'll finish #5 in 2 days.
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This was just my kind of game I guess.

******Spoiler Alert******
(Read at your own risk.....will give details away about the game)

Well the first Civ I met were the Zulus. After a few fights they were left with Zimbawabe. With a swift Knight and Elephant attack we took that. Then I turned my attention toward the Persians, which I found using a polar route. So I sent a ship with 2 knights to attack from behind, and 3 crusders and a knight attacked the polar route. (Which now has a road
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) But my knights landed next to Rome. I saw no need for words, and crushed Rome. The Romans were never the same. So my main attack force on the Persians were a little short handed....but I pressed on and took the Persan capital and destroyed her sister city. Now they had a fortified phalanx in a fort.....which cut me off from the rest of their cities......but did we forget Rome??? While this was going on I was taking other Roman cities. Veli, for example, fell before my mighty crusaders. Then I just flooded behind with Crusaders and finished off the Romans and Persians. Shortly after my conquest of Rome I dropped a diplo and elephant near Souix territory (Which I didn't know at the time.) I procedded to bribe a Souix city and take out the rest of the settlements with my Elephants. Now these 3 military actions were mostly all simulatious.... The Romans fell first, then Perians, then Souix. Knowing that their defeat was enavitiable I loaded up a few ships and head out to find the few remaining Civs. I landed a diplo near the Carthagans and bribed a city. I landed 2 crusaders near Technitioan (or whatever it's called
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)and took the Aztec Capital. Now I'm just spreading over the content....they should be totally destroyed in 10-15 turns.
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Anyway....one of my better military manuvoers.

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Yeah, it's really a kick-the-AI game. At first i went for expansion-assurance - kick'd them Zulus back to Zimbabwe, took out the Persians.

Then i went democratic and scientific.

I HAVE ALL THE WONDERS.
I HAVE CAVALRY, THEY HAVE PHALANX.

Some fellaz thought they could pick on me, so so long for Romans and i'm pretty sure the purple people up north are going to get it as well.

I don't know - for me the goal in this game is to get as much GOTM points, and i can manage myself anyway i can - quick conquest, quick spaceship, or expansionism and lots of them citizens.

Which i think is not a good thing, because there is almost no Civilization playing problems/techniques.

Did i mention that i have ALL THE WONDERS? If i haven't, here it is: I HAVE ALL THE WONDERS.

How often does that happen?



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"The weak have one weapon: the errors of those who think they are strong."

- Georges Bidault
 
Ecco how do you have the Cure for Cancer, for instance?

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[This message has been edited by BorderPatrol (edited June 02, 2001).]
 
Yes of course. The only one i do not yet have is the Manhattan Project.

I finished the game last night in <FONT COLOR="blue">(Matrix: edited)</FONT c>, all-1 wonders, around 50mill people, no pollution, no spaceship - scored around 120%.
<FONT COLOR="blue">Sorry, but either give your score or the finishing date, but not both because then people will know your exact (quite good) GOTM score.</FONT c>

Which is terrible, i think, or is the score so low because we're on the prince level?

Would i score higher if i finished earlier?

Anyway, i guess i'll have to replay a few times.

In this game, things got so out'a'hand, that i have the luxuries at 40%, advances are still every 2-3 turns + i get around 200 cash on hand. So tons of we love the king celebs, i just have to build aqueducts and sewers really quickly.

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"The weak have one weapon: the errors of those who think they are strong."

- Georges Bidault

[This message has been edited by Matrix (edited June 18, 2001).]
 
Originally posted by Ecco:
Anyway, i guess i'll have to replay a few times.

I don't think your supposed to replay it.
I believe we have a gentleman aggrement to only play once....in order to be fair.

120%.....terrible!!!! I got 59%!!! And that's my third best game ever!!!!

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My Civ 2 Scenario Page.
 
Border Patrol, you'll have no chance to win a gold, silver, or bronze medal if you don't build your civ score (mainly your population) to at least the 4,000+ level -- regardless of how quickly you finish. That is the bias built into the scoring system.

But you can avoid the tedium and compete with me for the green.

P.S. Thanks for your reply to my post on the deathly new unit. You seem to be the only other fanatic who has seen it. Does the Grim Reaper appear as a barbarian in your games on a regular basis?

 
So don't keep us in suspense, BorderPatrol! I was facing the same problem myself (which is why I'm curious...
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), and I went for a bit of expansion before ending by conquest.

In my game at least, the higher GOTM score came from some very fast-paced development. And you know, this really does reduce the end-game tedium. I used to double-irrigate etc at my leisure before, but now I really have to watch the clock and weigh my options.

Thanks Matrix, Stormerne and others who came up with this scoring system
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It's really tightened up my game.
 
Well Cactus Pete - that's not entirely accurate - it's all a question about how fast you do it - you can easily win the GotM with a score of 1000 is you do it fast enough!!! If you want to know if your score is a good one, then try and calculate your GotM score - if it's 50+ then it's a good one and if it's 100+ then you are probably among the finalists....

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We are species 8472 - assimilations attempts are futile - the weak shall perish

No wait we are species 5618 and we got beer...... don't harm us!!!!!!
 
Your dilemma can be resolved if you remember how the new scoring system works. If you do nothing to improve your Civ score like building more cities or growing them etc, your GOTM score will reduce by about 1% every turn.

(That's a reduction of 1% of the last turn's GOTM score, and NOT just knocking 1% off your Civ score! And it wouldn't mean you'd go from a GOTM score of 50 to 49 next turn, but rather from 50 to 49.5.)

So if you can guarantee to grow your Civ score by 1% every turn, you should keep on growing if you want a really high medal winning score. You should be able to do this for some while yet I suspect.

(As a reminder, you can calculate your GOTM #5 score by using this table . Find your finish year in the first column and either multiply your Civ score (not %) by the number in the third column or divide it by the number in the fourth column.)

My own inclination in your position would be to continue to grow.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.anglo-saxon.demon.co.uk/stormerne/stormerne.gif" border=0>
 
My own inclination in your position would be to continue to grow.
Yeah Stormerne, that's what I am doing. I am slowly taking a few turns each day tweaking my productions to get as big as I can. I am definitely on course to have my highest civ score ever, on any level! I will go for spaceship unless my growth starts to slow at some point in which case I will just send a unit to smash the pitiful Parsagrade and end it.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

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[This message has been edited by BorderPatrol (edited June 06, 2001).]
 
Originally posted by BorderPatrol:
I am definitely on course to have my highest civ score ever, on any level!
goodwork.gif
That's a familiar tale - I think it's happened for lots of us!

 
What am I doing wrong? I hear all these stories about people ending their games so early, conquering the world before even getting into the era of industrialization. It's amazing to me, for in every game I ever played (on my own, for this is my first GOTM) my growth seemed to be steady, but apparently not fast enough.

In this game, I have met the Zulu's first. I think they picked a fight with me right away. I did not go for an aggressive attack on them, but just defended my western cities. They keep picking off my settlers that are trying to build roads and irrigation for my western cities, which is annoying. But they bash their heads up against my pikemen defenders in the cities. I tried to get ahead in science by going to republic, but for some reason those advanced governments never work out for me. Civil disorder immediatly grips my whole civilization and I have to go back to monarchy. My favorite strategy is usually to do a super science city and then go to fundamentalism, but the other cultures grabbed the science wonders that I need except for collosus. They got that Isaac Newton College and the great library and that other science wonder. So I still have not decided whether I am going conquest or spaceship; I'm just holding my own and trying to grow on a crowded map.

To be honest with you, I never really played for score before. I have played games in the past where I became overwhelmingly strong and conquered the world, and I have played a game where I sent a spaceship to AC while my home continent was slowly being nuked to death; I believe my ship landed and won me the game just as the japanese nuked the city next to my capital! So I am sure there are lots of mistakes that cost me score, so this contest will be a true test of my abilities, to see where I truly measure up against some more hardcore civ fans. The outcome of GOTM 5 will be very interesting to me no matter where I place.
 
Stormerne,

Your table is accurate, as long as the user does not launch a SS before 1850. If you launch a SS before 1850, you must compute the actual game turn manually and then use the game turn, not the year, to look up the score multiplier in your table.

Bottom line, don't use the year to look up the game turn if you launch before 1850. Use the actual game turn to look up the multiplier.

NOTE: I have posted a detailed note in Matrix's spreadsheet thread... it turns out that all the GOTM 4 results are skewed by about 5%.
 
For Edge:

As a new member to this Forum, I'll make a few comments, since you asked.

To run a republic or democracy, you need to be able to generate trade and set luxuries high enough to offset the unhappiness. In a small map, republic works out nicely... but you have to commit the high (as much as 60 to 80%) luxuries to celebrate WLT__ days in the ancient eras. Marketplaces and temples, plus irrigation and of course, roads, are a great help. Ocean terrain and a harbor will ensure maximum growth, and after growing is done (I do it in furious cycles), you can drop the luxuries to about 20 or 30%, and put citizens to work on more shield-producing terrain.

One key is to understand trade and caravan bonuses. You get both gold and science for a caravan delivery... plus you get the trade route! In a low-corruption Republic, those bonuses can get HUGE. In GOTM 5, I was getting over 1000 gold and 1000 science for some caravans. In the late game, Oil and Uranium freight got up to 2200 gold AND 2200 science... even on this small map... and that was trading with myself, which curtails the bonus a lot. On big maps, I expect well over 3,000.

Every turn from about year 1400 onwards in GOTM 5, I'd get thousands in gold almost every turn. That finanaces rush construction of almost everything... I rarely sit around and build improvements from scratch in Democracy or Republic. I partially rush smaller units, or build the big ones (larger than Cruiser).

Trade routes and marketplaces will allow a dark ages republic to grow, though to max out, it will take democracy and a lot of late-game city improvements (JS Bach helps a lot).

For reference (on a big map), I'm thinking about SDI networks (placement pattern) and Battleship construction (eventual shield production and water access/distance to enemy) as early as 1000 BC, as I place my cities. On a small map like GOTM 5 however, none of that matters... because I have never seen an AI make it to the modern Era on a small map unless I allow them to (Normally, I always play diety on a large map, 7 civs, raging hordes).

Caravans/freight build wonders, make spaceships parts, create trade, defend cities, block spies, crowd/restrict ally movement (block choke points), explore territory, prevent partisan creation (when capturing a city in late game), even start wars (act as a juicy target for a "peaceful" nation that the senate won't let me attack) when governing in democracy or republic. BTW, caravans/freight cannot be expelled from enemy territory.

In the GOTM 5 Map, I used the early Republic strategy, and kept my science at one advance every 2 turns for much of the AD years, except when I underwent growth spurts (like after Aquaducts or Sewer systems). That allowed me to have destroyers facing phalanxes and Veteran Cavalry facing warriors and the odd pikeman when I lazily got around to killing off the rest of the world in the 1400 and 1500's. Most civs were toast in one game turn... I like wiping out a whole civ at one time, and consider it a semi-failure if I can't blitz the whole civ in one turn after railroad. BTW, this is actually a very helpful skill in late game because it will render partisan destruction moot if you can destroy the whole civ.

In the late game of GOTM 5, it was an advance almost every turn, and near the end, it was 2 to 4 advances per turn (FT is worth 5 points per advance on the final score), except if I really need 4 or 6 thousand more cash in one turn to finance something, like an sudden expansion (then I'd drop the science and raise taxes... Luxuries are 30% to grow, and 10 or 20% to maintain status quo in democracy, for me).

BTW, since I knew the GOTM 5 map was small, I was never concerned about aggressive expansion. In 1550, I left only one enemy city (a size 2 Sioux city), and gave the Sioux the entire technology tree (even Stealth). My 39-8-8-4-4-4 spaceship will land a little before 1800, but the end-game is tedious due to growing the cities and improving the terrain. My growth/FT is still ahead of the curve (GOTM score still increasing) as I finish the last few years...




[This message has been edited by starlifter (edited June 20, 2001).]
 
If I can add one more comment re. edge's problems, it's this: DON'T BOTHER WITH FUNDAMENTALISM. At least not until you're more experienced and can handle Democracy. You'll only pick up bad habits from Fundy--such as not worrying about happiness factors. Democracy (and Republic to a point) are the best options. The only time I ever go for Fundy is in Deity level and then only if I'm WAY behind and missed all the happiness wonders.

Well actually one more comment: The mistake you made in your early game was not taking out the Zulus right away. It limited your expansion and caused you to lose a few settler units, right? Well, in the early game, even one lost settler can slow you down. Don't back down one inch when playing the AI. Well, not if you want to go for an early finish anyway. Use all the resources at hand. Got a legion and a horseman from huts? Throw them at whatever city you stumble on. Chances are at this stage they're still defended with warriors anyway. Got a civ advance--Warrior Code--instead? Rush-build archers and send THEM out. Be aggressive and decisive.
 
Personally, I consider any form of government a transition for eventually getting to Democracy. I used to use Communism as the bridge, but found that Fundy was often better because I could produce and rush build the basic infrastructure faster (marketplaces, temples, banks, collisieums, courthouses, and airports/superhighways if available).

In addition, as I produce warships (or unhappiness-causing units) in Fundy, I distribute them among my cities in anticipation of Democracy. Normally, I try to get Shakespeare's theater built in a strategic city... this contains most ships, missiles, and "in the field" combat units, which solves the unhappiness caused by units away from home in Democracy.

In any large Civ at Diety with Michelangelos Chapel and JS Bach (by far the 2 most important wonders in most Deity games), Fundy will generate the most cash per turn at any given moment. However... Democracy will out-produce fundy after 3 to 6 years of growth under democracy. Fundy grows too slowly, and the caravan bounus is smaller.

The Fundy 50% science hit is basically irrelevant... if you are strong militarily and use caravan/freight and diplomats/spies to generate an advance every turn (use rail and 15-30 transports). You can't push to make 2 to 4 advances per turn with Fundy like you can with Democracy, but I have fought long wars under Fundy while still getting an advance every turn with spies and/or freight.

 
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