Diplo Penalty For Religious Conversion

[holywar]

I am playing as Arabia on the Middle East SC map and, after settling in a wonderful little spot in the desert, I stepped on the faith ruin and took the Desert Folklore pantheon. Since every tile I work is desert (and I built Stonehenge) I am producing an insane amount of faith and have already founded and enhanced the religion of Islam.

I have the ability to covert pretty much every civ based on my missionary output. But I'm worried about diplo penalties in those civs that already have a religion. I know I will take a diplo penalty when I decline their plea to stop spreading my faith, but will that penalty be cancelled out once I entirely convert them and we follow the same religion? Also, is the diplo penalty a one-time thing or does it add with each city I convert?

I am militarily weak and do not want to provoke my neighbors into a costly war. (After all, I'm making a killing on trade routes. ) At the same time, I feel strongly that each of them should be worshipping Allah and abiding by His law.

Any guidance is appreciated.

 

[EK834]

I am playing as Arabia on the Middle East SC map and, after settling in a wonderful little spot in the desert, I stepped on the faith ruin and took the Desert Folklore pantheon. Since every tile I work is desert (and I built Stonehenge) I am producing an insane amount of faith and have already founded and enhanced the religion of Islam.

I have the ability to covert pretty much every civ based on my missionary output. But I'm worried about diplo penalties in those civs that already have a religion. I know I will take a diplo penalty when I decline their plea to stop spreading my faith, but will that penalty be cancelled out once I entirely convert them and we follow the same religion? Also, is the diplo penalty a one-time thing or does it add with each city I convert?

I am militarily weak and do not want to provoke my neighbors into a costly war. (After all, I'm making a killing on trade routes. ) At the same time, I feel strongly that each of them should be worshipping Allah and abiding by His law.

Any guidance is appreciated.

I'm pretty sure the modifier increases with each city from their religion that you convert, and once they've asked you to stop if you keep going it's worse. If you promised to stop and don't, you're heading for a denouncement or DoW if they're stronger than you and other modifiers don't offset their anger.

You will however, IRRC (it's been a while I forced converted an AI that had its own religion...) get a positive modifier if you convert enough cities to make your religion their majority religion. This won't last, as they reconvert their cities pretty fast usually, and the anger won't be gone.

I think this varies with each CiV's flavor/religious biases, though. At least some seem to get angrier about being converted while others, the type that don't even bother to spread their own religion to all their cities, don't seem to care much. But this could be a side effects of having good enough relations to offset this rather than a modulation from "flavor" for religion.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Best way to deal with civs who have their own religion and are aggressively spreading it is to drop a Great Prophet on their holy city and their other biggest cities. Their religion will be essentially wiped out. They'll be mad at you, but as long as you have a big enough military to hold them off in the event of an invasion (not hard vs the AI usually) then you'll be fine.

 

[householder]

Best way to deal with civs who have their own religion and are aggressively spreading it is to drop a Great Prophet on their holy city and their other biggest cities. Their religion will be essentially wiped out.

Using a GP against a foreign holy city can suppress that religion for while, but it will eventually regenerate.

As for diplo penalties and bonuses, from what I have seen the diplo bonus for sharing the same religion is mild. However, the negative penalties from spreading a foreign religion can add up to major levels. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't antagonize them, just that you be prepared for it.

 

[holywar]

Thanks. I might convert just the non-religion civs and let trade routes / pressure do the work. I have itinerant preachers, so that helps.

What if I gathered all my missionaries around their cities and converted each civ in one turn before they could complain, then promised not to do it anymore? Only a small diplo hit?

 

[holywar]

It was not as easy as I thought. I have been waging religious war with Persia, and although I'm winning it hasn't been a cakewalk. We are basically trading GP for GP, converting and reconverting major cities in other civs. The missionaries help, but only a GP can repair the damage done by another GP. I can crank out a GP pretty quickly, but it takes longer each time. Definitely not as easy as I thought it would be.

I am determined to spread Islam to the entire civilized world.

 

[householder]

I am determined to spread Islam to the entire civilized world.

Have you taken "Unity of the Prophets" for your Reformation belief? The benefit is Inquisitors and Prophets reduce your religion's presence by half (instead of eliminating it.)

My impression is that it is extremely helpful when I try to establish a global religion.

 

[Buridan]

does anyone know if the passive spread of religion via pressure causes diplo hits, when a city gets converted this way?

 

[Arcaian]

does anyone know if the passive spread of religion via pressure causes diplo hits, when a city gets converted this way?

Nope, no diplo hit if you don't take an intentional choice.

 

[njmfff]

does anyone know if the passive spread of religion via pressure causes diplo hits, when a city gets converted this way?

Nope, you don't get diplo if city flips naturally, just when you convert it with missionary and Great Prophets.

You can even nuke city with missionary, but don't convert it. Convert most of his citizens to your religion, then let pressure do the natural flip.

anyway, you can convert only one of his cities (just not AI capital). On second, AI will complain, but you won't get diplo if you say you won't do it again, and actually don't do it anymore. If you refuse, or if you say "ok, no more" then convert another city, then you get diplo hit for broken promise.

You won't get diplo hit if you convert AI city that has adopted religion of another civ. (even if they founded their own religion). It seems that hit goes only if you convert their city with THEIR religion.

note that, if you convert AI cities, and they have their own religion, AI will pay you a visit with dozens of his GP and usually refuse to stop conversion.

 

[mikeville]

I have noticed that if I station an Inquisitor next to my capitol, the AI won't try and convert ANY of my cities. Is there something to this, or is it just a fluke that has happened in my last three games in a row? In one of those games, I was very aggressive about spreading my religion around the world, too.

 

[Browd]

Inquisitors repel missionaries and Great Prophets. Works if the inquisitor is in the city itself or in one of the six tiles immediate adjacent to the city center.

 

[njmfff]

I have noticed that if I station an Inquisitor next to my capitol, the AI won't try and convert ANY of my cities. Is there something to this, or is it just a fluke that has happened in my last three games in a row? In one of those games, I was very aggressive about spreading my religion around the world, too.

Yeah, I noticed that too. It seems that AI goes for capital only. I often seen AI pass all of my cities and goes straight for capital. I buy inquisitor and his prophet just keeps circling around, but doesn't convert any of my cities?

 

[holywar]

Inquisitors repel missionaries and Great Prophets. Works if the inquisitor is in the city itself or in one of the six tiles immediate adjacent to the city center.

I didn't know that! I thought the inquisitor only protects the city he is garrisoned in.

 

[holywar]

Inquisitors should also be able to kill missionaries like military units can kill an unguarded great general.

 

[Browd]

I didn't know that! I thought the inquisitor only protects the city he is garrisoned in.

It does protect just one city, but as others have noted the AI tends to target holy cities, so protecting your holy city will often suffice. You can put the inquisitor on a road to provide more mobility if needed.

 

[GoStu]

I don't think I've ever successfully converted every AI to my religion, or even completely kept one neighbor converted. I was trying to make Persia into good little Catholics in my last game as the French, even to the point where every city had given up that Zoroastrianism, but he still managed to whip out a great prophet and switch both his cities back before trying to get me.

I DOW'd him three times to capture marauding great prophets, and his religion was already enhanced, so that's his 500, 800, and 1200 Faith GP's off two cities. No idea where he got the Faith other than maybe finishing Tradition and Piety for two freebies.

I can't imagine repeating the process for that many other religious civs, Desert Folklore's insane FPT or no. Some combination of that, Faith beliefs off buildings (can't spare any to buy Mosques, Pagodas, etc), and Pilgrimage to build momentum? Even then, you get huge Faith Per Turn, but have to spend it all on Missionaries.

Reminds me of an expression here in Alberta: You can make a fortune in Oil, but you'll spend it all on Gas.

 

[RaidandTrade]

If you GP another civ's holy City, can you station an inquisitor in their city as well to stop their religion growing back? I do this in captured holy cities but haven't tried with those currently not in my possession. If they kill the inquisitor, then that's a DOW, right?

 

[phillipwyllie]

The diplo modifier is always bright red, compounded by you broke your word not to do it again. I've done this by accident(not noticing the civ has just founded a religion) and it seems this diplo hit stays for a long while.