fe3333au
Deity
I thought we could use this to discuss the game mechanics of diplomacy ... in particular analyse our (my 
) response
) response
Diplomacy - Game Mechanics
- Thread starter fe3333au
- Start date
fe3333au
Deity
Firstly it is evident that a form of IM is prefered ... therefore anyone who wants to actively be involved in diplomacy is expected to have IM capability and savvy
I have AIM ... but don't really want to clutter up my system with other stuff ... although will if necessary and it is not too difficult ...
I don't mind e-mails or (PM if necessary) ... when I'm involved in chatting I tend to want to quickly type because I fear that they will talk before I can finish my point ... it is all too manic ...
What does Foreign Minister need from Diplomats ???
> Diplomats should visit our team site at least once a day
> Start discussion threads if FM not around
What do Diplonats need from Foreign Minister ???
I have AIM ... but don't really want to clutter up my system with other stuff ... although will if necessary and it is not too difficult ...
I don't mind e-mails or (PM if necessary) ... when I'm involved in chatting I tend to want to quickly type because I fear that they will talk before I can finish my point ... it is all too manic ...
What does Foreign Minister need from Diplomats ???
> Diplomats should visit our team site at least once a day
> Start discussion threads if FM not around
What do Diplonats need from Foreign Minister ???
fe3333au
Deity
Another thing ... when times are stated for meetings or correspondence ... I think because we are on different time lines ... that your personal NOW time must be stated
eg
Meeting is Tomorraw at 12.30am ... my time atm is 10.00pm ...
So everyone knows that in 14.30 hrs a meeting will happen and because it is very important for the game I will set alarm to be available 1 hour before which would be 4.30am
eg
Meeting is Tomorraw at 12.30am ... my time atm is 10.00pm ...
So everyone knows that in 14.30 hrs a meeting will happen and because it is very important for the game I will set alarm to be available 1 hour before which would be 4.30am
fe3333au
Deity
Also we need links to the software sites where these chat programs are available
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Here is one program that is useful. It is called Trillian. http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/
I came across references to Trillian in my search... But I'm running os9.2, so I'm pretty much stuck with AIM. I've tried some others (even made just for mac) and they just don't work well with the browswers.
Fe333au, Peter Grimes, and Chamnix were all on AIM. Chamnix was also in the actual meeting with Kentharu and Whomp and his teammates. Chamnix would fill us in on things, and the 3 of us would discuss a bit, and then Chamnix would whisper in Kentharu's ear.
I think we were way more organized and productive than KISS.
Fe333au, Peter Grimes, and Chamnix were all on AIM. Chamnix was also in the actual meeting with Kentharu and Whomp and his teammates. Chamnix would fill us in on things, and the 3 of us would discuss a bit, and then Chamnix would whisper in Kentharu's ear.
I think we were way more organized and productive than KISS.
fe3333au
Deity
Emp Napoleon is too
fe3333au
Deity
The 3 hous is too long ... lets discuss ways of getting diplomacy to an easier level
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
as Whomp said there were to many people there who just wouldn't shut the hell up (all from KISS), Emp. i want your input cause you know more about this than i, Chamnix DEFINATELY helped out (thank you so much) Emp, Chamnix, and Fe should be on whenever we do diplomatic stuff, (and me hopefully)
this 3-4 hour thing was not good, nothing should take that long (except actually playing the civ game) we rushed into this a little to fast, next time we have to set down what time everyone will be available and what we should talk about
we need crystal clear deals guys, what happened just now is not good, not good at all
hopping around the issue can't be avioded really but it should be kept to a minimum
this 3-4 hour thing was not good, nothing should take that long (except actually playing the civ game) we rushed into this a little to fast, next time we have to set down what time everyone will be available and what we should talk about
we need crystal clear deals guys, what happened just now is not good, not good at all
hopping around the issue can't be avioded really but it should be kept to a minimum
Emp.Napoleon
SUPER EMP!
That was terrable. We need to get an act together on this diplomancy stuff.
#1 FM needs to tell ambassador what to present
#2 Ambassador tells other team what we wanna talk about, and ask for them to come with a deal, and so will we
#3 Ambassadors and friends talk about the deals and reach agreements by taking away from things and adding
#4 FM gives his ok on a deal
OR
#4 Other team asks us to wait while thier nation polls it, and we discuss it more, and might ok it, to give confidence to other nation's voters
#5 Deal is made in treaty form
I will post some links from the ISDG and MSDG tonight, I urge all diplomats and interseted people to read them.
#1 FM needs to tell ambassador what to present
#2 Ambassador tells other team what we wanna talk about, and ask for them to come with a deal, and so will we
#3 Ambassadors and friends talk about the deals and reach agreements by taking away from things and adding
#4 FM gives his ok on a deal
OR
#4 Other team asks us to wait while thier nation polls it, and we discuss it more, and might ok it, to give confidence to other nation's voters
#5 Deal is made in treaty form
I will post some links from the ISDG and MSDG tonight, I urge all diplomats and interseted people to read them.
Meleager
Stoned as a Statue
I am getting trillian now, have a look
emp. napoleon when you posted the link to the alliance in another thread it says i cant see it. presumably cause i'm not in that group. Could you physically copy text over from any pages where (if) thats the problem?
all the diplomats should get their wage trippled
EDIT: AIM screen name = meleagerster
EDIT 2: with the addition of a new aol email (apparently i got one when i signed up), i now have 6 email accounts
emp. napoleon when you posted the link to the alliance in another thread it says i cant see it. presumably cause i'm not in that group. Could you physically copy text over from any pages where (if) thats the problem?
all the diplomats should get their wage trippled
EDIT: AIM screen name = meleagerster
EDIT 2: with the addition of a new aol email (apparently i got one when i signed up), i now have 6 email accounts
Good point about the email... I think we should post our primary email account in the citizen list. That way no one will email my work account with anything important over the weekend (I'm looking at you, Fe )
I think in the semi-final analysis, we learned quite a lot here. Next go around, things will be much smoother.
Don't do a chat until talking points are agreed upon. That way we can automatically avoid topics we wish not to discuss.
2 rooms worked well (I thought). It allowed privacy, and it allowed some of us to run support operations.
having only 2 people in the official room made us (I hope) come across as professional and focussed. That should lend some 'majesty' of a sort to our diplomats.
Maybe also set a time limit to the chat? e.g. We will only be able to Chat for 45 munites, so please come prepared with offers, counteroffers, and contingencies.
Find out in advance if each Diplomat will be able to sign on dotted line, or if any agreement will have to go back for approval. This will allow us to know more of what to expect out of a negotiation.
)I think in the semi-final analysis, we learned quite a lot here. Next go around, things will be much smoother.
Don't do a chat until talking points are agreed upon. That way we can automatically avoid topics we wish not to discuss.
2 rooms worked well (I thought). It allowed privacy, and it allowed some of us to run support operations.
having only 2 people in the official room made us (I hope) come across as professional and focussed. That should lend some 'majesty' of a sort to our diplomats.
Maybe also set a time limit to the chat? e.g. We will only be able to Chat for 45 munites, so please come prepared with offers, counteroffers, and contingencies.
Find out in advance if each Diplomat will be able to sign on dotted line, or if any agreement will have to go back for approval. This will allow us to know more of what to expect out of a negotiation.
Emp.Napoleon
SUPER EMP!
No time limit, just prepared and everything will go well. I am a strong beliver that all who want to be, and who will not mess things up, should be in a chat. But most of the talking is done by the goverment ministers and ambassador.
fe3333au
Deity
Couple of things have come up ... and I believe that we may be the only team to have contact with two teams 
Anyway in both times ... big agreements have been sought ... and both times all the chats have been hours of chat involved ...
I don't know about you guys ... in my experience with meetings ... phone-links and design and board ... the longer it goes ... the harder to concentrate ... and in a non-structured free form chat (as these meeting are) ... this could lead to a decision being agreed to which has far reaching consequences ...
I think a simple barter and haggle session for what you want for this tech is easily handed alone and unsupervised ...
But a we agree to everything for eternity AND we want to know NOW ... cannot be agreed to in such an environment ... so an AIM with advisors is essentail ... but at the same time i feel that the excited rush of negotiations which soon become frustrated when will this end scenarios is not helpful ...
These big deals really do deserve to be put to the entire team for input ...
Just thoughts
But congrats to all involved in the 2 previous negotiations ... well done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I really hope that particularly our diplomats and also those involved either as advisors, observers and in adjacent AIM will input on this ....
What are your frustrations with the way MIA has been handling diplomacy?
What changes can you suggest to improve our methodology?
How much power should the Diplomat and Foreign Minister have for long term alliance type of deals? ... and can agreements be entered upon without consultation?
EDIT - Just re-read the thread and totally agree with Peter-Grimes' format ... even with the time format ... however extra time can always be agreed upon in mid negotiations ... these hours of bibble babble are just too wearing to the soul
Anyway in both times ... big agreements have been sought ... and both times all the chats have been hours of chat involved ...
I don't know about you guys ... in my experience with meetings ... phone-links and design and board ... the longer it goes ... the harder to concentrate ... and in a non-structured free form chat (as these meeting are) ... this could lead to a decision being agreed to which has far reaching consequences ...
I think a simple barter and haggle session for what you want for this tech is easily handed alone and unsupervised ...
But a we agree to everything for eternity AND we want to know NOW ... cannot be agreed to in such an environment ... so an AIM with advisors is essentail ... but at the same time i feel that the excited rush of negotiations which soon become frustrated when will this end scenarios is not helpful ...
These big deals really do deserve to be put to the entire team for input ...
Just thoughts
But congrats to all involved in the 2 previous negotiations ... well done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I really hope that particularly our diplomats and also those involved either as advisors, observers and in adjacent AIM will input on this ....
What are your frustrations with the way MIA has been handling diplomacy?
What changes can you suggest to improve our methodology?
How much power should the Diplomat and Foreign Minister have for long term alliance type of deals? ... and can agreements be entered upon without consultation?
EDIT - Just re-read the thread and totally agree with Peter-Grimes' format ... even with the time format ... however extra time can always be agreed upon in mid negotiations ... these hours of bibble babble are just too wearing to the soul
azzaman333
meh
If i knew what times the diplomacy sessions were at i would have some input. but afaik the chats arent going to happen until after they have. Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to start a thread for postring the time the diplomacy will happen with the time zone next to it.
fe3333au
Deity
Good point ... and have the time posted in GMT ... so calculations can be easily done ...
Here are my suggestions based on last night's double header. Emperor was in there the whole time, I was only on for a little while in each round. We are getting bullied because the other teams are ranging over too many issues. Therefore I propose a two-tiered system of talks. The other teams should be made aware of these mechanics. Fe - these are simply my ideas, and I hope people discuss them and offer others as well.
As regards Large Important Treaties:
Due to the profound impact of these types of agreements for the health of our civilization, it is prudent to involve the team in the drafting and discussion. These agreements should not be 'hashed out' in chat sessions. If a foreign negotiator requires, as a precondition to further trade talk, a Large Important Treaty, then the Chat session is effectively over. The Diplomat doesn't have the authority to act alone in these matters, and must bring the proposal back to the team for discussion.
All foreign teams should know that before going into a chat with our Diplomats.
As regards Simple Trade Swaps:
Our Diplomats are perfectly capable of representing the team in these deals. Before going into a chat the Diplomats should be well prepared with agreed-to talking points. If other team members are around, they may assist the Diplomat as they are able, but we shouldn't have more than two people posting in the chat. The more people posting, the more confusion will arise. In Diplomacy, confusion should be our tactic, not our demise.
The other teams should know, going into a chat, that our Diplomats are able to seal deals on tech/gold/resource trade. They should have an idea of what items are on the table.
As regards Large Important Treaties:
Due to the profound impact of these types of agreements for the health of our civilization, it is prudent to involve the team in the drafting and discussion. These agreements should not be 'hashed out' in chat sessions. If a foreign negotiator requires, as a precondition to further trade talk, a Large Important Treaty, then the Chat session is effectively over. The Diplomat doesn't have the authority to act alone in these matters, and must bring the proposal back to the team for discussion.
All foreign teams should know that before going into a chat with our Diplomats.
As regards Simple Trade Swaps:
Our Diplomats are perfectly capable of representing the team in these deals. Before going into a chat the Diplomats should be well prepared with agreed-to talking points. If other team members are around, they may assist the Diplomat as they are able, but we shouldn't have more than two people posting in the chat. The more people posting, the more confusion will arise. In Diplomacy, confusion should be our tactic, not our demise.
The other teams should know, going into a chat, that our Diplomats are able to seal deals on tech/gold/resource trade. They should have an idea of what items are on the table.
Emp.Napoleon
SUPER EMP!
I would like to be told by the higher powers what I am to talk about at these chats. It is not within my athority to make up deals on the spot really, the goverment should be telling me what to get and how much I can offer.
fe3333au
Deity
I hear what you are saying Emp 
Here is what I think ... and have sent to D-Nuts and will be sending to KISS
That our diplomats can agree to the final terms, after a haggle session to agreements which have been sent to MIA at least 24hrs prior to meeting ...
Any other topic that required a formal agreement can be discussed and posssibly concreted a bit (ie. any outrageous demands can be automatically dismissed) ... BUT will need to be taken back to MIA in order that all citizens can input and possibly vote on the issue.
I think after three of these sessions ... we are all sick of the time and energy wasted ...
Of course another thing for our diplomats is to engage the rivals in conversation and collect information ... eg. that TNT are at war ... where the hell did that come from
EDIT - Also I think that having an team AIM Chat which connects with the Diplomat or Observer is essential.
And finally that the time for the meeting should be advertised in GMT (for easy conversion purposes) so that any citizen can join the AIM ... I think better that not too many are at the official meeting ...
Here is what I think ... and have sent to D-Nuts and will be sending to KISS
That our diplomats can agree to the final terms, after a haggle session to agreements which have been sent to MIA at least 24hrs prior to meeting ...
Any other topic that required a formal agreement can be discussed and posssibly concreted a bit (ie. any outrageous demands can be automatically dismissed) ... BUT will need to be taken back to MIA in order that all citizens can input and possibly vote on the issue.
I think after three of these sessions ... we are all sick of the time and energy wasted ...
Of course another thing for our diplomats is to engage the rivals in conversation and collect information ... eg. that TNT are at war ... where the hell did that come from
EDIT - Also I think that having an team AIM Chat which connects with the Diplomat or Observer is essential.
And finally that the time for the meeting should be advertised in GMT (for easy conversion purposes) so that any citizen can join the AIM ... I think better that not too many are at the official meeting ...
fe3333au
Deity
Another thing ... in lieu of Emp.Nap. being contacted by KISS ...
If any non-authorised player is contacted by another team to discuss agreements then the MIA player must direct the rival's to the proper channels ... no discussions are to be entered into ...
If the matter is urgent the MIA player is to get details and inform the prefered channels to rival ... and then post a record of the communication on the relevant OFFICIAL Embassy Thread ... this includes PM's and chat logs ...
Every member should be aware that having a chat without providing a chat log is considered not acceptable in future ...
EDIT ... Please no-one take offense to the sterness of the above ... but if I wrote it fluffy then it wouldn't have sounded right 
If any non-authorised player is contacted by another team to discuss agreements then the MIA player must direct the rival's to the proper channels ... no discussions are to be entered into ...
If the matter is urgent the MIA player is to get details and inform the prefered channels to rival ... and then post a record of the communication on the relevant OFFICIAL Embassy Thread ... this includes PM's and chat logs ...
Every member should be aware that having a chat without providing a chat log is considered not acceptable in future ...
EDIT ...
Please no-one take offense to the sterness of the above ... but if I wrote it fluffy then it wouldn't have sounded right 
