Diplomacy help, war seems like the only answer

[moorie678]

First of all I would like to thank all the people that helped me out with the questions I got......and now I have to deal with another aspect of this game.

Diplomacy.........I read a few guides in terms of this, and every time I do follow them it does not really work out favorably. I would set two examples.

I was playing as Washington on a fractal map, and was sharing a big island with Alexander (Greece), I have founded Judaism, he converted to it, after this I decided not to eradicate him with axeman and try for a space victory for a change (When I declare early wars I usually lag behind in techs, I am getting better at it however not quite good enough to wage a war and win the space race) regardless, I accepted open borders, refused to trade with anyone that he was cautious, annoyed or furious towards, gave him anything he wanted regardless (80% of the time he asked me to help him out with techs) was trading resources etc. Every 10-15 turns I made sure to gift him gold, units etc to be on good terms with him.

Suddenly, we get to modern era about the same time, all of a sudden he goes from being friendly/pleased to furious and declares war on me! I had some defensive units so it was possible for me to hold him back for a while. In the meantime I am trying to get him to accept peace, he demands cities or flat out refuses to talk with me. I should add that I did not ask him for a favor nor did I build culture cities at my border to prevent city flipping.

Then due to pissing of the other Ai's for not trading with them etc., they declare war on me (Catherine but not sure.) I am guessing that I am screwed and try to just produce military units. Couple turns later, germany declares war on me and start to maul me with tanks, at this point I am screwed......

Happened in my last game as well, with egypt, I was friendly with them the entire game, gave into whatever they wanted and the entire game I was pretty much in war with russia. I even got her to declare war on her for about 20 turns or so. I made sure that I gifted egypt and stood on her good side, never asked for anything except for iron, which she would not give me regardless of what I offered (she had +4 iron), I said whatever to myself, couple turns later I find out Egypt is providing Catherine with iron and gave russia steel which was a tech that I gifted Egypt. Cath, upgrades her catapults to cannons and I am stuck with catapults, so i figure I would play defense for a little bit more till i get some upper hand on her. Egypt finds emancipation, then it all goes down the toilet. my cities with 14 population goes down to 7-8 due to unhappiness. I literally beg her to give it to me and cancel her deals with russia but she wont budge. Catherine plows me over....the end.

Any tips on making an allie for good without defensive pacts? Or any pointers to avoid this type of a situation? I am getting really irritated by this, and I just flat out refuse to trade with Alexander and russia no matter what in my new games......eventually I am gonna end up not trading anything with anyone in any game......any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Senor Soup]

I think your big mistake may have been to over emphasize on technology and neglect your military. You said you had a FEW defensive units bordered with Alexander. Alexander is an aggressive leader and will not shy away from attempting to "pick off" the civs who are weakened militarily. An aggressive leader will be opportunistic and attack regardless of relations. I once had a "friendly" Montezuma declare war on me when I had minimal defenses on their border to concentrate on a war with someone else.

 

[moorie678]

So........I should have a strong military just in case these guys turn on me? then what is the point of having them as allies? its like having a bear for a pet, its is as much likely to maul you as anyone else? And if I had that much of a military then it will be easier just to declare war on them.

Dang it, ty for your answer, it was not what I was hoping for. I really doubt I will ever win a Space Victory, first time I have played I won a culture, then couple military, cant even survive till AI achieves space victory, they get tanks then I get mauled if I am trying for space.

Guess thats it....I am going to maul on these fools with Navy Seals from now on.......

 

[Gorman Truart]

You don't need a military large enough to attack, you just need it large enough to repel an invasion. Anyone will attack you if you're weak enough, regardless of their attitude. For the non-insane leaders, a moderately sized military will suffice. For Alex and Monty, you'll need a few more, but you don't need to go to the build-enough-to-destroy-them extreme with your friends.

 

[kazapp]

You need a big military regardless of how you want to win.

The AI will declare war on anyone substantially weaker than they (check the power graph!) regardless of relations (just like a human player, I might add...).

Some AI leaders are notably more psychotic than others, and being neighbours with them might simply be more trouble (in terms of having a military that you don't use) than its worth.

So the next time you bump up against Alex, Monty or Cath (the exact leaders deemed least trustworthy seems to differ slightly depending on who you ask) you might want to simply kill them off quickly, and then resume your space race strategy with others as your nearest civ...

 

[rantamplan]

a diplomatic way its posible:

First rule is, have the same religion than the civs that might DoW you (Declaration of war), if thats not posible becouse they have different ones, then have no oficial religion or choose wich one you want to be allied to and pick that religion.

second rule is, peace must have some kind of interest for them, trade with them resources, there are several resources that have exactly the same effect but having 2 of same resource doesnt add up, what you have to do is first make permanent trade of resources of any resource that you have severall times, then trade those that you only have 1 for others that you dont have but have same effect specially with those civs that you want to keep peace with.

for example, lets supose your resources are:

2 ivory
1 cow

you should trade them in this way:

1st ivory --> wathever you need.
2nd ivory --> gold, dye, fur, gems...
1st cow --> banana, fish, clam...

your empire wont suffer from this trades but other civs will get benefit from this and your peace will endure.

third rule, some civilizations are harder to keep good relations with them, gift them stuff that you dont need, techs helps but since that its a 1 turn gift they can just backstab you laters, but you can gift them resources that everyone has and its no way to trade, usseless resources (like marble and stone once there is no othe wonder that needs them, iron or copper in same instances) extra film songs or wathever...

4th rule, the more trades teh better, sometimes you cant trade with someomne becouse you dont have anything that he needs, check what he needs and try to get it from another civilization, even giving one of you unique resources, then trade it for another resource or even teh first one you gived to the 3rd civilization.

Make yourshelf the trading post of every civilization and no one will DoW you.

5th rule, sincerelly this should be enough but having a strong military also works, and strong doesnt mean to have advanced forces, AI is aware you can upgrade your units in one turn just by selling technologies so AI pays more attention to cuantity than qualitym but mor eimportant than having a big military is having your strategic resources defended, specially those that are needed for upgrading your units or building new ones.

hope this diplomacy guide helps.

 

[moorie678]

Thank you it helps a lot. I was trading to keep AI happy but not to this extent.............I really appreciate it.

 

[Senor Soup]

Even still, keep a decent sized military, especially defensive units. You should also work to have defensively strong cities as well.

 

[moorie678]

hahahaha i just won my first space victory.......thanks a lot guys, now to win on other difficulties (kinda had to reload a couple times, kinda cheated.......I wasnt sure what to research first)