This is my point, though. In the one game where I've faced Attila, he has been *very* smart with his use of the battering ram. Holding them in reserve whilst using his warriors for cannon fodder & horse archers giving strong ranged defense. Then only bringing up the rams when the city's garrison has been completely wiped out. It was a truly amazing-if somewhat scary-thing to watch....especially as we were hostile at the time . Also, when I finally did go to war with him, he used the FoW to his advantage-hiding all his strongest units in the Fog, & luring me into committing my own forces instead-then wiped me out on his home turf. Seriously, I don't know where all this Attila "hate" is coming from! Aussie.