Discussion: Aztec Culture Farms

RNevermore

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
7
I have a boring job. It allows me to think allot, and while I was thinking about which civilization I am going to play in 5 days. I decided it would be the Aztecs.

_images_apocalypto.gif

My future kingdom

The thought about their special ability (gaining a small amount of culture per kill), naturally lead to a thought about how I could capitalize on such an advantage. I thought, 'To gain the strongest advantage as this civ, I need to be destroying enemy units as often as possible, even constantly, over the course of the game. Unfortunately, as most of us are aware, a periminant state of War weighs heavily on the happiness of your civ, your economy and your resources. And God forbid you actually wind up LOSING the war, or making enemies with everyone in the world.

So it got me to thinking, 'If only I could find a weak civilization with very little ambition, contain it, siege it, surround it, and farm any units it produces as fleshy bags of culture at infinitum.'

...

But wait! Thanks to City States, that could be possible!

apocalypto-7.jpg

Farming culture

I haven't done lengthy research or analasys of what we know thus far of Civilization 5, so I don't know the specifics, the numbers, or how viable this strategy is. Maybe someone more learned can lay down some stats on this, but here, I'll lay it down simply.

It is possible, as the Aztecs, to surround and contain one or more city states that happen to be near your empire, and remain at constant war with them, killing units for a cultural bonus every time they produce them. But is it viable? To find out, we need a few questions answered:

-What effects upon your happiness, trade or culture would a prolonged war with a City State have?
-Are city states capable of putting up more of a fight than that? Would a civilization be able to effectively supress one or more city states with ease?
-Would the bonuses for peace with the city states be greater than the cultural bonuses one would recieve from war, as well as the military promotions?
-A constant war with one or more city states would likely negatively effect your relations with other city states or civilizations. Would the military requirement of farming the states be great enough to cripple a war on other fronts?

I don't know any specifics or numbers on any of this. Perhaps someone else does, or perhaps we will need to wait until release and testing. But it would be very interesting.

apocalypto3.jpg

Glory of the Aztecs


PS: These pictures come from the movie 'Apocalypto', which I highly reccomend to anyone who has not seen it.
 
Sorry, I already suggested this earlier today. Unfortunately, everybody thought I was joking for some reason:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=379678

Your wording in that thread was mocking and joking, so people responded in kind.

I dont claim to be the first to come up with this idea, I'm just wondering if it would be a viable strategy. I haven't much for analytical skills, and judging from what I've seen on these forums, some people have a suprisingly in depth knowlege of the game already. I just hope that one or two of them has some insight on the numbers.
 
I like those pictures and I loved Apocalypto...but didn't the movie portray Mayans and not Aztecs?

As to the strategy I wonder if the benefits you get from the city state would outweigh the cultural bump you get from killing their units.
 
Well, the cultural city-states may be worth befriending (as only they provide culture). The rest of them are definitely farm material.
 
I like those pictures and I loved Apocalypto...but didn't the movie portray Mayans and not Aztecs?

As to the strategy I wonder if the benefits you get from the city state would outweigh the cultural bump you get from killing their units.

I believe it was the Aztecs... but really, it's difficult to tell, both were very similar. It took me a while to weed through the pictures that were too brutal for a sensible public forum :P
 
I believe it was the Aztecs... but really, it's difficult to tell, both were very similar. It took me a while to weed through the pictures that were too brutal for a sensible public forum :P

The movie was definitely about the Mayans, but yeah, you can't really tell based on pictures.
 
I assume City-States being capitals will have a palace when conquered, which gives +2 culture per turn, you could turn them into puppet states and get +2 culture a turn after you have farmed enough culture off their army by eliminating it.
 
I also recently somewhere in the "I have the Civ 5 Guide" thread, that the amount of culture the Aztecs get from units increases with the more advanced the unit killed is. Just throwing out ideas, but if the city state you keep farming doesn't start producing higher quality units, you could (as Ragnarok stated) just take them over, and turn to a more advanced state. As I feel long drawn out wars with a city state is going to make AI and other city state really unhappy with you.
 
Thoughts

1. There doesn't appear to be any "war weariness" in Civ 5... you get some unhappiness when you take over cities, but no suggestion of war weariness per se

2. Units may cost more maintenance in foreign territory, and can't upgrade, and may have trouble healing.

3. Cultural City States are definitely worth befriending in this Strategy.

4. City-states will probably advance faster than a one city civ would (they have their own tech tree)

5. The biggest problem is going to be Other civs who want to get the benefit of that city-state as an ally... your constant war with them will lead to civs declaring war on you. (or threatening to if you don't make peace with their little buddy)
 
I actually think using this plan against city-states is a waste (well, more specifically, using it against cultural city-states is a waste). But I see no reason not to use it against a full fledged Civ. Take some cities that are of importance, then keep fighting in neutral territory. If possible, find a choke point and keep going.

The trick for this strategy is to minimize casualties while maximizing kills. Every unit you lose has to be replaced, which means production that can't be used to build cultural buildings. If you're going for a full fledged cultural victory, that's the goal. Research should be directed towards military techs to keep pace with unit advancements. Policies should be anything that helps in warfare or culture. Everything else is situational. Obviously happiness and science buildings are needed in some capacity, but I feel they come second to culture production. And, in this context, culture production means either buildings or military units.
 
It is possible, as the Aztecs, to surround and contain one or more city states that happen to be near your empire, and remain at constant war with them, killing units for a cultural bonus every time they produce them. But is it viable? To find out, we need a few questions answered:

-What effects upon your happiness, trade or culture would a prolonged war with a City State have?
-Are city states capable of putting up more of a fight than that? Would a civilization be able to effectively supress one or more city states with ease?
-Would the bonuses for peace with the city states be greater than the cultural bonuses one would recieve from war, as well as the military promotions?
-A constant war with one or more city states would likely negatively effect your relations with other city states or civilizations. Would the military requirement of farming the states be great enough to cripple a war on other fronts?

I don't know any specifics or numbers on any of this. Perhaps someone else does, or perhaps we will need to wait until release and testing. But it would be very interesting.

Rather than worry about all of those questions, couldn't you just farm a barb encampment instead? Also, the encampments spit out units much quicker than it takes a city to build them, I believe.
 
Rather than worry about all of those questions, couldn't you just farm a barb encampment instead? Also, the encampments spit out units much quicker than it takes a city to build them, I believe.

Yeah, that's what I recommended in my thread, too. It would be a barbarian+city-state farm.
 
If you get lucky on a map with snakey continents you could fortify a chokepoint or two and keep a constant state of war with someone while fighting only on your terms (at those choke points). Better make sure you have a dominant navy and good patrols though.
 
Rather than worry about all of those questions, couldn't you just farm a barb encampment instead? Also, the encampments spit out units much quicker than it takes a city to build them, I believe.

Hmmm... probably a stupid question, but does the Aztec unique ability work against barbarians too?
 
The Aztecs actually did this.

During peace times, in order to maintain a steady supply of slaves to sacrifice to the gods, the triple alliance city states (Tenochtitlan, Texcoco, and Tlcopan) would partake in 'flowery wars' against their three closest friendly neighbors (all vassals of the Aztecs). These would play out just like wars against enemy nations, except the idea was not to try to kill, but to capture as many enemies as possible. Once all six sides deemed they had enough slaves to sacrifice, the battle was ended.

After the first of these battles, they were continually held even during war time, because although the Aztecs were warlike enough to always have captives available, some of the other involved groups were not in a similar position.
 
Rather than worry about all of those questions, couldn't you just farm a barb encampment instead? Also, the encampments spit out units much quicker than it takes a city to build them, I believe.

That's my strategy for the Germans: get high tech ranged units and surround an encampment, peppering it with arrows each time a unit comes out until you get like 300 gold and a huge army for free.
 
i think that there could be another issue with city states.
If they ally themselves with another civ then that civ could possibly declare war.

I think a barb encampment would work out better but again it depends how many turns it takes for them to dish out a unit. I think it might be less beneficial due to the maintenance of the troops you re using to block 1 camp.....
 
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