Discussion On Why Civ 7 Doesn't Feel Like A "Civ" Game

[Siptah]

I find it quite interesting that when the topic is about how it feels to play a specific game, people that haven‘t played it chime in with their non-experience. I get it: it‘s easy to confuse watching someone do something with doing it yourself in the current age, but it is hardly the same experience - aside from the story telling aspect maybe. And maybe that is why people that haven‘t experienced playing the game are so focused on how the changes disrupt the narrative? Because they completely lack the flow of playing that works against that?

Mind you, I’m not saying that the disruption of the narrative isn‘t a thing or that it won‘t happen if you play - the reviews provide great evidence for that. It’s just an interesting observation imho.

 

[Skojardu]

I would play an age based civ-lite deck builder with good tactical play, though.

Through the Ages by Czech Games Edition. It has an app!

 

[Civinator]

I find it quite interesting that when the topic is about how it feels to play a specific game, people that haven‘t played it chime in with their non-experience.

Siptah, I am one of those civers who have not bought Civ 7 yet - and that is the reason why I normally post no longer in the Civ 7 forums. But other than you are posting, the title of this thread is: Why Civ 7 doesn´t feel like a "Civ" game and not why my play with Civ 7 is not feeling like a civ game. Therefore I think it is completly allowed to do here a post based on the statements of Firaxis/2K themselves.

This said, I am one of the very few modders who has some experience in the changing of civs and rulers during a civ game with the Civ 3 mods CCM 2.5 and CCM 3 and the upcoming mod CCR by the massive help of the C3X mod - and I can say: Ruler and civ changing in my eyes can be done much better as it is done now in Civ 7.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Siptah, I am one of those civers who have not bought Civ 7 yet - and that is the reason why I normally post no longer in the Civ 7 forums. But other than you are posting, the title of this thread is: Why Civ 7 doesn´t feel like a "Civ" game and not why my play with Civ 7 is not feeling like a civ game. Therefore I think it is completly allowed to do here a post based on the statements of Firaxis/2K themselves.

This said, I am one of the very few modders who has some experience in the changing of civs and rulers during a civ game with the Civ 3 mods CCM 2.5 and CCM 3 and the upcoming mod CCR by the massive help of the C3X mod - and I can say: Ruler and civ changing in my eyes can be done much better as it is done now in Civ 7.

I think it's not about who is allowed to post and who doesn't. Sure, everyone could post.

The idea is that people who didn't play the game, don't have the same experience with the game as those who did. So, some of the people who didn't play Civ7 may actually found that it feels like civ game if they play it.

Again, not all of them, of course, I totally understand that many people played Civ7 and disliked it.

 

[tman2000]

Through the Ages by Czech Games Edition. It has an app!

Very nice. Needs military tactics, but very nice game.

 

[tman2000]

It literally has all the same basic mechanics. Like civ switching or don't,.but it doesn't change the gameplay substantially.

Think about it like this, you are saying civ switching makes it feel not like civ...so are you saying it doesn't feel like civ twice jn thr game? Surely playing Augustus as Rome when no switching has taken place feels like civ. So does it stop feeling like civ when you are now Augustus of Normandy? Why? What gameplay changed besides the bonuses?.

You’re arguing why it semantically is similar to other games. Have you read my OP? Tons of substantive differences between 7 and the series.

 

[Civinator]

I think it's not about who is allowed to post and who doesn't. Sure, everyone could post.

The idea is that people who didn't play the game, don't have the same experience with the game as those who did. So, some of the people who didn't play Civ7 may actually found that it feels like civ game if they play it.

Again, not all of them, of course, I totally understand that many people played Civ7 and disliked it.

Very nice that here every poster who has not bought Civ 7 yet is discriminated as a "second class-poster", even if the post only contains a statement by Firaxis/2K.

 

[Siptah]

Very nice that here every poster who has not bought Civ 7 yet is discriminated as a "second class-poster", even if the post only contains a statement by Firaxis/2K.

Sorry, if you take it that way but it's not about discrimination (at least from my side). OP is clearly and in many instances talking about how it feels to play the game. It would be nice (and expedient) to keep the discussion around that instead of sidelining to what FXS states or what people interpret from videos or texts imho. There are many other discussions why the game isn't to someone's liking, why not have this one about whether playing it feels like civ or not? Of course, I don't want to imply that no one else should post. But it would be a nice gesture to include something like "I haven't actually played the game and can only muse about how it feels but ..." or something similar - as some people actually did (you included).

 

[aelf]

I find it quite interesting that when the topic is about how it feels to play a specific game, people that haven‘t played it chime in with their non-experience. I get it: it‘s easy to confuse watching someone do something with doing it yourself in the current age, but it is hardly the same experience - aside from the story telling aspect maybe. And maybe that is why people that haven‘t experienced playing the game are so focused on how the changes disrupt the narrative? Because they completely lack the flow of playing that works against that?

Mind you, I’m not saying that the disruption of the narrative isn‘t a thing or that it won‘t happen if you play - the reviews provide great evidence for that. It’s just an interesting observation imho.

Indeed, I neglected to mention that those who didn't play Civ 7 might also not have a good handle of the differences to make the judgement.

How the thread has gone so far does highlight how messaging shapes people's thinking. For good or ill, a significant number of people seem to rely on being told what the game is about, whether by a marketing tag line, influencers, or their peers. It serves to further illustrate how tricky it is to narrow down what makes a Civ game a Civ game. A lot of it lies in perception, which can differ wildly from person to person and is influenced by any number of things, even down to the trivial.

 

[Niallism]

Very nice that here every poster who has not bought Civ 7 yet is discriminated as a "second class-poster", even if the post only contains a statement by Firaxis/2K.

Quoted text should resemble the original. This does not.

 

[Civinator]

Quoted text should resemble the original. This does not.

The quoted text is the original text. You are not even reading the quote. You are wrong!

 

[Civinator]

Sorry, if you take it that way but it's not about discrimination (at least from my side).

A discrimination is a discrimination, even if it is written that this is not intended.

OP is clearly and in many instances talking about how it feels to play the game. It would be nice (and expedient) to keep the discussion around that instead of sidelining to what FXS states or what people interpret from videos or texts imho.

For the question why something should not feel like a civ game it must first been cleared what should be a "civ game". In my eyes these are the existing versions of the Civ series: Civ 1-Civ 6 compared to Civ 7. The difference must be significant, if a new game of the civ series should have lost such a feeling. So one should have a look what is different in Civ 7 to Civ 1-6 to come closer to the feeling, that some civers have lost the feeling of a civ game with Civ 7. One in my eyes interesting point in such a comparison is, that Firaxis/2K for Civ 7 have changed the slogan, that describes the game in Civ 7. There is a reason why they changed that very successful slogan for Civ 1-6 in Civ 7 to a much wider slogan describing the game.

Please note, that I never speculated here in my post about that reason, but it could be helpful to ask Firaxis/2K about that reason to find out, what some civers mean by loosing the feeling of a civ game that they are not able to describe more nearly. And even more important please note, that I have never posted, that I have lost the feeling of a civ game with Civ 7.

Also please note, that I am no "Civ 7 hater". It is crazy to hate a game. If a game is not convincing me, I don´t buy it, or if I have bought it, I don´t play it. May be Civ 7 will convince me somewhere in the future - but not at present.

Of course, I don't want to imply that no one else should post. But it would be a nice gesture to include something like "I haven't actually played the game and can only muse about how it feels but ..." or something similar - as some people actually did (you included).

This is the next discrimination.

 

[stealth_nsk]

A discrimination is a discrimination, even if it is written that this is not intended.

For the question why something should not feel like a civ game it must first been cleared what should be a "civ game". In my eyes these are the existing versions of the Civ series: Civ 1-Civ 6 compared to Civ 7. The difference must be significant, if a new game of the civ series should have lost such a feeling. So one should have a look what is different in Civ 7 to Civ 1-6 to come closer to the feeling, that some civers have lost the feeling of a civ game with Civ 7. One in my eyes interesting point in such a comparison is, that Firaxis/2K for Civ 7 have changed the slogan, that describes the game in Civ 7. There is a reason why they changed that very successful slogan for Civ 1-6 in Civ 7 to a much wider slogan describing the game.

Please note, that I never speculated here in my post about that reason, but it could be helpful to ask Firaxis/2K about that reason to find out, what some civers mean by loosing the feeling of a civ game that they are not able to describe more nearly. And even more important please note, that I have never posted, that I have lost the feeling of a civ game with Civ 7.

Also please note, that I am no "Civ 7 hater". It is crazy to hate a game. If a game is not convincing me, I don´t buy it, or if I have bought it, I don´t play it. May be Civ 7 will convince me somewhere in the future - but not at present.

This is the next discrimination.

Nobody is trying to prohibit you from posting or downplay your opinion. All I and @Siptah were trying to say is that experience from actually playing the game differs from perceiving the game in other ways. I see no discrimination here, at least not in your direction. Actually it looks like by accusing of discrimination you're trying to suppress some parts of the discussion.

 

[Civinator]

I see no discrimination here, at least not in your direction. Actually it looks like by accusing of discrimination you're trying to suppress some parts of the discussion.

I have the feeling just the other way around - that here it was tried to suppress my part of the discussion. May be it is better to stop these posts now.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

For me personally, I've been following the game long enough through the development cycle to understand it sufficiently. Many here saying people who haven't played don't have enough information to know they won't like it we're also very quick to be supportive of the game and how much they would enjoy it before they'd played it. This is no different before release. Both camps have made discernments about whether or not they'll like the game based on information they've gathered.

Those who have bought have been able to confirm assumptions, those who haven't have not been able to.

However, for me I can generally tell when I'm going to like a game. I can also tell when games are similar conceptually. I've played games similar conceptually to Civ 7, and I haven't enjoyed them. I've been given lots of information from the developers and concluded that I won't enjoy it, and for clear reasons I can articulate which I am confident will be significant enough for me to not get out of the game what I enjoy.

You don't need to play call of duty modern warfare to know you don't want to play it, especially if you've already played medal of honour and not enjoyed it

 

[Siptah]

For me personally, I've been following the game long enough through the development cycle to understand it sufficiently. Many here saying people who haven't played don't have enough information to know they won't like it we're also very quick to be supportive of the game and how much they would enjoy it before they'd played it. This is no different before release. Both camps have made discernments about whether or not they'll like the game based on information they've gathered.

Those who have bought have been able to confirm assumptions, those who haven't have not been able to.

However, for me I can generally tell when I'm going to like a game. I can also tell when games are similar conceptually. I've played games similar conceptually to Civ 7, and I haven't enjoyed them. I've been given lots of information from the developers and concluded that I won't enjoy it, and for clear reasons I can articulate which I am confident will be significant enough for me to not get out of the game what I enjoy.

You don't need to play call of duty modern warfare to know you don't want to play it, especially if you've already played medal of honour and not enjoyed it

While this is true, it's missing the topic of the OP and the point I raised. Being able to make a decision on liking based on 2nd hand experience is different (and we do it all the time) than discussing actual experiences and comparing these - which we usually don't. I've seen bungee jumping many times, and I know that I don't want to try it - despite people telling me how great it feels. I can try to imagine how it could feel to me, but I cannot really imagine the experience as a whole and compare this imagined experience with people that actually did it in a meaningful way in discussion. I can also imagine how something tastes when I read a recipe and see it, and decide on whether I'd like to try it. But I don't discuss the experience of eating it if I actually haven't had a bite or even smell.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please discuss the topic, not each other or who can post. Everyone may contribute as they see fit. Each poster may decide on the validity of a post based upon the experience of the poster, but that is not what we are here to discuss in this thread. We are now off topic, please return to discussing the topic of this thread.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I need to add my own, totally subjective, experience. I've played Civ1-6, I also played Humankind and some other games. After seeing developer streams and early previews, I thought changes in Civ7 will feel somehow like HK. However, even when I had some really civ moments. When I saw developers or youtubers playing preview builds, I stopped the videos on settlement growth event and though where I'd put this population - I wanted to play the game.

When I actually started to play the game, some of my expectations turned out to be true and some don't. The settlement planning was as fun as I expected and with every patch shuffling things it still is. Comparisons with HK were false, though. It didn't feel anything near this. Of course, there were things I disliked too, some I saw in the videos (like UI constraints) and some I haven't thought about (like the requirement to settle toward east or west coast in antiquity if you want successful exploration).

 

[Siptah]

I need to add my own, totally subjective, experience. I've played Civ1-6, I also played Humankind and some other games. After seeing developer streams and early previews, I thought changes in Civ7 will feel somehow like HK. However, even when I had some really civ moments. When I saw developers or youtubers playing preview builds, I stopped the videos on settlement growth event and though where I'd put this population - I wanted to play the game.

When I actually started to play the game, some of my expectations turned out to be true and some don't. The settlement planning was I fun as I expected and with every patch shuffling things it still is. Comparisons with HK were false, though. It didn't feel anything near this. Of course, there were things I disliked too, some I saw in the videos (like UI constraints) and some I haven't thought about (like the requirement to settle toward east or west coast in antiquity if you want successful exploration).

I agree. Playing civ 7 feels much closer to civ 5 and 6 and even 3 and 4 than to Humankind. The exception would be warfare, for which HK and civ 7 are closer than civ 7 to civ 3 and 4. But the way you expand, explore, progress, research, etc.? It feels right at home. Sure, there are many variations and differences. But I'd argue the feel is distinctively civ and not particularly close to any of the competitors.

I think the yield inflation per tile is what feels the least like civ of the all things that impact the turn by turn gameplay loop. In previous civ games, tile yields of 120 were very far off, and now you reach 80 in each game.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I agree. Playing civ 7 feels much closer to civ 5 and 6 and even 3 and 4 than to Humankind. The exception would be warfare, for which HK and civ 7 are closer than civ 7 to civ 3 and 4. But the way you expand, explore, progress, research, etc.? It feels right at home. Sure, there are many variations and differences. But I'd argue the feel is distinctively civ and not particularly close to any of the competitors.

I think the yield inflation per tile is what feels the least like civ of the all things that impact the turn by turn gameplay loop. In previous civ games, tile yields of 120 were very far off, and now you reach 80 in each game.

To me combat in Civ7 feels more like in previous civs. Maybe that's because I play it like in previous civs - I view commanders more like great generals with additional features, than like armies.

HK has separate tactical map, like AoW and many other games and it feels totally different to me (and much less enjoyable). Again, subjective.