Disloyal AI Leaders

[jrice77]

Was offered Defensive Pacts By GW, Elizabeth, and Alexander. Was going for a Cultural Victory, and thus gladly accepted. They were all "Friendly" toward me. After about 10-12 turns, they all dropped the pacts. Within 3 turns, Issabella declaires war on me!
Is the AI that easily turned against me? What use is a defensive pact if it gets dropped when war is on the horizon. It seems to me, that when I approach the AI on canceling existing deals, any leader they are tight with is usually in red (no dice), and when they ask me to cancel, I tell them to go pound sand if it is anyone I am friends with. "I can be trusted."

 

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Maybe it's just you....

 

[Eagle_Seven]

Maybe you're a non-believer. Did Isabella change religions?

 

[denogginizer]

I've had a civ refuse to trade a tech to me because "They want to win the game". Maybe they decided that you were too close to winning?

 

[Azragaul]

I had good relations with Mansa throughout the whole game he was the one Civ I didn't piss off in one way or another. We traded regularly and had the same religion.

I was going for a Cultural win and figured I had about 10 turns before I was done. Out of the blue he declares war on me. He was in 2nd place at the time score wise.

I think you were in the same boat. Close to a win and the AI dosen't like to lose. I know better than to trust any AI at this point and usually have enough units ready that I am quite happy to have the declare war.

 

[BIGRICK]

Same Thing Happend To Me With Mansa But I WaS About 10 Turn From Building The Spaceship

 

[DaemonDivinity]

"We'd rather win the game."

Got this on 3 techs from Fredrick when he was at least two dozen turns ahead. Guess who won? Give you a hint, he ain't german.

I just conned 2 other civs into declaring war on him, then I did likewise. I can fight a 3 front war and build a spacecraft. Seems the AI can't.

 

[Finite Monkey]

It appears that the AI does indeed focus in on the person in the "Lead". I would like some sort of equation on how to combat this (money, tech etc), but it seems like an unwritten + or - in diplomacy might be your standings in the score. If you have a big score relatively you get a - etc. I would also guess that if you are going for a cultural war it might start aggrevating people around you, especially if their cities are flipping.

Some sort of test should be run to determine this effect and whether it happens or not. Does a particular Victory path make a difference? Does difficulty level make a difference etc.?

 

[suspendinlight]

Also, signing defensive pacts lowers your reputation with other leaders, though not very much, -1 or -2 usually.

 

[jrice77]

I guess my point wasn't very clear. The surprise wasn't that Issabella attacked me, we were never on good terms. It was that my allies all dropped their defensive pacts just before the attack. Unless it was very odd coincidence (3 allies w/in 2-3 turns?) it appears Issabella convinced them to drop the pacts. I guess as some have said, they may have been more easily swayed because I was winning. But all three?!? Where is the love!

 

[walkerjks]

For cultural wins, this is one reason I save my great artists until the end. It does appear that the AI is more inclined to attack you when all your cities are around 40,000 culture. By saving my great artists (say I have 9), my cities might be at 46K, 38K, and 30K the turn before I win. The AI never manages to recognize that I am close to winning, so I avoid some late-game wars.

 

[suspendinlight]

I guess my point wasn't very clear. The surprise wasn't that Issabella attacked me, we were never on good terms. It was that my allies all dropped their defensive pacts just before the attack. Unless it was very odd coincidence (3 allies w/in 2-3 turns?) it appears Issabella convinced them to drop the pacts. I guess as some have said, they may have been more easily swayed because I was winning. But all three?!? Where is the love!

Defensive pacts are automatically voided when someone attacks you because you can't be at war and have a defensive pact at the same time. Your former allies should still go to war with the person immediately after canceling the pact though.

 

[KAuss]

Defensive pacts are automatically voided when someone attacks you because you can't be at war and have a defensive pact at the same time. Your former allies should still go to war with the person immediately after canceling the pact though.

Um, dude... What is a defensive pact for?

They cancel out if "YOU" declare war on someone... Not when someone wars you... A defensive pact is a contract to protect one another when other civs attack you or your protected civ... Makes no sense if they cancel out when someone attacks right?

This brings me to another point... Why in the hell does the AI show up with a "-1 you declared war on our friends" crap when clearly the AI started the war?!?!?! In Civ 3, this was handled a LOT better... What a load of bull in Civ 4

 

[suspendinlight]

Um, dude... What is a defensive pact for?

They cancel out if "YOU" declare war on someone... Not when someone wars you... A defensive pact is a contract to protect one another when other civs attack you or your protected civ... Makes no sense if they cancel out when someone attacks right?

This brings me to another point... Why in the hell does the AI show up with a "-1 you declared war on our friends" crap when clearly the AI started the war?!?!?! In Civ 3, this was handled a LOT better... What a load of bull in Civ 4

Wrong, the pact is canceled whenever you are at war whether you caused it or not. Regardless of whether it makes sense (it doesn't), here is what happens:
1. You get attacked
2. The pact shows up as canceled
3. Your former ally declares war on your attacker
4. Once you both make peace, you can resign the pact.

 

[Vizzini]

Wrong, the pact is canceled whenever you are at war whether you caused it or not. Regardless of whether it makes sense (it doesn't), here is what happens:
1. You get attacked
2. The pact shows up as canceled
3. Your former ally declares war on your attacker
4. Once you both make peace, you can resign the pact.

If it didn't do this there would be no way to make peace. One of you would invariably still be at war, so if one of the pact members signs a peace treaty the very next turn they'd be at war again.

The defensive pact will trigger a declaration from your defensive buddy - and the AI will dutifully charge your attacker and "do war upon him/her", but the actual diplomatic "defensive pact" is gone at that point. (Altho now you get the nice juicy "Our mutual struggle brings us closer together" diplomacy bonus )

Once the war is over and all parties are at peace you can re-sign the defensive pact.

OP: Isabella most likely bribed your pact members to break off relations with you. She's a sneaky wench. Either that or you made a mistake and switched Civics and/or someone switched religions. My money is on the bribery angle tho...

 

[blackheart]

The AI is out to win, as you are. So it's in their best interest you beat you down

 

[KAuss]

Ahh that makes sense... Thanks for clearing it up...

Still, the game makes no sense in how they handle it!!! I guess it's just there for the diplo hit between AI civs more than really defensively helping each other...