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District Costs

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by CPL_Yoshi, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. CPL_Yoshi

    CPL_Yoshi Chieftain

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    Can anyone confirm the that the Civ VI Wikia page is correct when it comes to the production cost of districts?

    http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/District_(Civ6)

    Specifically,
    and

     
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yup , been lots of Discussion on this so maybe check out some old threads but confirmed.
    EDIT: The formula is slightly incorrect... there are now 51 civics not 50 (well there is 52 but it works with 51)

    To me it's anti snowballing and builder chops use the same mechanic so chopping in districts then buying buildings seems the best approach for later districts.

    One strategy I use as England is develop my coastal cities first with other districts, then my harbour's are 75% cheaper and if I start to build them all in roughly the same turn they have the Same cost.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  3. CPL_Yoshi

    CPL_Yoshi Chieftain

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    Thanks for the reply! Pm'ed you about another topic, but I do have a couple follow-up questions.

    Is this 25% locked in upon placing down the districts? Or Is the number of the average player's district get calculated immediately upon the placement of said district, before it is completed?

    So, if the number of the average player's campus districts was 3, and you were to place down 4 districts all in the same turn, would they call cost the same? or would the 4th one not receive that bonus?
     
  4. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    The 25% reduction is actually not compared to other players' districts. It's compared to your own average number of all districts. Basically, the 50% of districts that you have built less of are cheaper.
     
  5. Locke_Daemonfire

    Locke_Daemonfire Chieftain

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    It's locked on placing the district, but I believe it updates every time you place a district as well. I have definitely placed two districts in the same turn where the first has the discount and the second does not. I trust Victoria's testing over my memory.

    The wikis say 'average among all players.' I'm inclined to believe that is true, since AI seem to never build Commercial Hubs, and I believe that's why mine are full price, even if I have a few other districts first. But I'll admit I haven't looked at it very carefully.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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  6. CPL_Yoshi

    CPL_Yoshi Chieftain

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    Do you have proof of this anywhere? It does go against the wording in the Wikia page.
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @CPL_Yoshi I Pm'd on the other matter and can see why you are asking this question

    Last time I did this my scenario was roughly as follows

    I had 6 cities and had built 3 commercial districts and a campus.
    5 were on the coast and I placed 5 harbours all in the same turn... they all got the same price including a discount which I believe is all players ... I checked the costs 5 turns on nd they had not changed but I did not track them through This I said earlier

    However I will check this out tonight or tomorrow morning using display all for clarity... I'll check the other thing first
     
  8. CPL_Yoshi

    CPL_Yoshi Chieftain

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    @Victoria Thanks for the reply.

    According to @KrikkitTwo's Formula Thread, the 25% is applied after, meaning the formula would be as shown below:

    (FLOOR(BaseCost(1+9*FLOOR(100*MAX(COMPLETEDTECHS/67, CompletedCivics/50))/100)) )* 0.75 = production cost of district

    For exact numbers, does anyone know if the actual production cost will be rounded up or down?
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I am in turns 81... I have 8 cities and 4 can build harbours... I have not built any harbours yet. They are RNDY so have a base cost of 30

    I look around the map with reveal all and 4 harbours have been built worldwide and another 4 under construction which I suspect does not count.

    I now build 4 harbours in 4 of my cities ... all of them cost 81 (freak.. matches the turn) production to build .. I change out 2 of them to builders and check 2 turns later and all four still have a completion cost of 81 production.
    I am now going to run through until a couple are complete and then check then...

    EDIT: First harbour complete .. no change in cost of the others

    EDIT: Turn 92 I have just built another city. If I build a new RNDY here it says 84 production.. 14 techs 10 civics... So far I only have 1 other harbour built... I will not place this one but use as a cost comparison.

    EDIT: Turn 99, 3 RNDY complete 1 to go (still costs 81)... If I build another now it will cost 97 production.
    I currently have 3 harbours, 1 encampment and a holy site built I have a 1 encampment, a commercial hub and a harbour underway. World wide 9 other harbours and complete and none under contruction. The most any civ has is 2. I have 17 techs and 10 civics

    EDIT: Turns 100 4 RNDY complete, no other stats changed and if I build another it will still cost 97

    So the big change comes when I have built 3 RNDY which is more than any other civ.. my cost goes from 84 prod to 97 prod... but I also completed 3 techs. The change in cost is not greater than a 25% discount.... I am not seeing any change around that.. maybe I need a tonne more... I guess I'll do some maths :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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  10. CPL_Yoshi

    CPL_Yoshi Chieftain

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    Hm, so the base cost of the already placed districts do not increase when another district of that type is completed. That's really good to know.
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    OK so the fornula works although excel like is as follows and matches the values I see in turns 92 & 97

    =FLOOR(30*(1+9*FLOOR(100*MAX(TECHS/67,CIVICS/51),1)/100),1) <- Civic increase from original

    So when I built them I had 0 dockyards but got 0% discount.

    The website states

    "Moreover, the price of a District is 25% lower when the number of a given district you own is less than the all-player average. This is not necessarily useful in any strategy but has obscured player observations on district costs."

    I guess the all player average for dockyards at turn 81 was below 0.5 so the discount is not there.....

    important

    This means if I waited enough turns without getting too many techs the price of my dockyards would decrease... wow I'm gonna check this... dammit! I did not save turn 81... I'll have to start from scratch but it does seem like there is some cunningness to exploit in there

    The formula also shows that if you just rely on population your techs will be the one used. This also implies that if you push early science you are doing more damage than pushing early culture.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
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  12. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    Yes. No matter how many cities I have, exactly half of the districts I can build has a reduced price.

    Edit: Apart from that, it also makes more sense, as it stimulates you to increase your diversity in districts, wheras, as in the quote from Victoria above, having less than the all-player average doesn't really mean anything.

    As for making absolutely 100% sure wheter or not it has to do with other players, I would say, start a game where you only build one kind of district (to make sure that one isn't below average) and see if all others get reduced in cost. That still leaves some space for doubt, as you technically have less than average for all other kinds of districts, so then build one of one of those kinds, and see if afterwards it's still reduced in price. If it is, it's the all-player average, if it isn't, it's your own average.
     
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @Leyrann If you think of my above example it shows you are incorrect for once.... it's Ok I'm often wrong, no biggie.

    I have built 4 harbour's and only have 3 other districts. Throughout the process, including building my first harbour I got no discount. If what you said was correct I would have got a discount with my first.

    @Locke_Daemonfire I am impressed, you have skyrocketed in my estimation. Our memories can certainly fool us.
     
  14. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    Could you please give more details about the sequence of PLACING & FINISHING the districts?

    (My current theory about district costs is they are determined when PLACING a district based on _own_ already FINISHED districts.)
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Sure @c4c6 always glad to help ya, a good solid long time Civ 6 forum chap.

    It was a test game I was testing some bits in... so I placed an encampment first in my capital and finished it
    I then did not lock down or start any districts apart5 from a commercial district in an inland city... I was too tied up with othere things like settlers, builders and troops and as its not a competitive game I did no lock downs.

    At turn 80 I see this thread and at turn 81 I place 4 harbours in

    London
    Preston
    Liverpool
    Bradford

    At that stage I carefully checked each and they would cost 81 production to finish which fits the formula without the discount
    Also at this stage globally only 1 major civ has completed 1 harbour ... a few CS as also but I do not believe they count... although tey are considered players so this may still be valid.... even if they did there was 4 total which is less than 1 or 0.5 average.

    At about turn 86 Londons harbour finishes so I check the other 3 and they all still show 81 cogs until completion
    At turn 92 I complete a second in Bradford and the last 2 to build still show 81 cogs... I also found a new city where if I was to start a harbout (I did not) the price would have been 84 production
    At turn 99 I complete my 3rd in Preston and the last in Liverpool still shows 81 cogs to complete and if I was to now start one in my new city it would cost 97 cogs to make
    I use a builder in T100 to chop in my last as its 1:30 am and I am flagging, a new harbour would still cost 97

    Do you want me to run another test for you? What are you suggesting theory wise?..
     
  16. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I'm not sure if this way of testing proves anything. Afaik. the district cost is locked in at the time of placing. Thus, if you placed all four harbors on the same turn, the cost of the remaining three will be unaffected by the fact that London finishes its harbor. Unless I misunderstand the purpose of your test, it would be more relevant to check cost, build harbor in London, and then check cost to place in other cities, all other things being equal (i.e. no techs or civics finished meanwhile).
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @kaspergm What this testing proved is you can remove the AFAIK from your sentence. there was posts here that said it was otherwise so a jolly god test just sorts it out.
    Withe the formula working as expected it does not matter if you do or do not complete other civics, you can still spot a 25% discount.
    The testing did not just build 4 at once... I had a fifth city I could look at the current turn cost without building which was great and just what you suggested.

    The main aim of this post was for the OP who just wanted some validation before taking something up with Firaxis. They'll probably post it herein a few weeks when Firaxis does their normal response.
     
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  18. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    Thank You a Lot!
    At this point just the encampment is finished. Do you get a discount for any (other) district type? (which?)
    Maybe one has to have a min Number of completed districts for getting any discount?
    I suppose this delta comes from new developed techs / civics and 84 fits to the formula?! ?
    97?! Looks like a penalty instead of a discount? Does 97 fit to the formula?
    Would be interesting, whether there a more smaller steps from 84 to 97 for harbour price - and what caused them?
    (Also prices of other district types eg. campus behave the same and / or get discounts?)
    I hope you have all the turns of above game automatically saved and can simply look into the saves ...
    I suggest the effective ('placing down / locking in') costs of districts depend on the districts this player has already FINISHED _or_ started _or_ could potentially build _or_ "the same" based on the districts of all players.
    It would certainly be easier to change techs & civics before completion, but maybe that depends on what is additionally tested in the same run.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Nope.. not that I have seen will run some more checks today hopefully

    Yes... the formula works fine with what I have seen

    I have not seen the discount at all and that,s because its likely global.... The best way to test this is to build a later holy site as thats what 5 civs out there are spamming at the start. As the AI does not build a lot of districts I doubt we will get a lot of discount. The time it does happen is just when they have build enough and you have built none... and that is the right time to spam 10 in one turn as the price then is fixed. However waiting until this happens possibly hampers your own plans a causes a lot of checking and is quite gamey.

    ummm nope... I do a lot of testing and often CBA.... I had 3 games going last night. Too many saves doe smy head in.... I have a turn 1 save and a tun 91 save but i did document here what I did...I can do another test... tell me what you want and i can do it... So you seem to thinking its a local discount rather than the official line..... tell me what you want done in what order and I'm happy to try for ya... I just think the test above is fairly clear. I think I should be noting down the cost of a holy site each turn and at some stage I should see it drop due to exterior civs getting enough for me to get a discount. I would not even have to build a single district... sound like a fair test?
     
  20. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    I have to leave now for a couple of days. I'll resume then.

    Yes, if human player builds no district and just checks every turn all district prices and one price after the other drops because of the discount, this would be quite clear ... would probably also correlate with the appropriate log files of AI building districts. Not sure, how much this can be accelerated with FireTuner ("World Builder") ... giving human the necessary techs & civics, so he can see all district prices ... then simply putting districts into the AI cities and checking next turn the human prices

    On the other hand, if human player builds several entities of half the district types and the prices of the other half drop ...!!!
     

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