Do not lower yourself - Focus on those that are hurting

[MrLeN]

I have little doubt that the United States of America and allies will deal with those responsible in a humane manner. I do not believe that civilians will be "blown up", as I have seen suggested.

For those of you that insist on turning certain parts of the middle east into a "car park", please keep in mind that many people who live in these areas are innocent people, like you and me, and had nothing to do with these events.

I was saddened to see footage of people from the middle east dancing in the streets, and being handed candy for doing so, but this is the effect of propaganda, and oppression.

I would also like to express to ANY individuals that may see fit to pick on anyone that looks like a muslim, and have them downgraded, or to physically bash them or hurt them in any way, that you will lower yourselves to the level of the evil that was behind these events.

Please, do not get personally involved in hatred, racism or abuse towards innocent people that do not have anything to do with these things.

The individuals responsible will be brought to the hand of the law, by America and its allies. It distresses me to see blood thrown on muslim communities doorsteps, and shops being shot at and other terrible things.

Some of these things are happening in Australia too. Please reconsider your values, lest you condemn yourself to be on the same level as this evil.

MrLeN

P.S. No I am not a muslim. I am an Australian with a German and English background.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

I agree.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

I wholeheartedly agree. As shocked as I am by this disaster, I hope this does not give way to the seeds of hatred and prejudice. I felt very strange, when, taking a walk with my dog the other day, I saw a group of arab-looking people, and I didn't know where to look. I couldn't help a very strange feeling, and I didn't like it. It was like I was already blaming "THEM" for this. And I even have friends who are moslems and have lived in the middle east!

This has nothing to do with religion. This is about striking terrorism, and the people responsible for it. I feel so very sorry for all those people who has lost their loved-ones. There's no way of bringing them back.

 

[VoodooAce]

Thanks so very much, MrLeN. I couldn't agree more, and it is very reassuring to know that there are not just a few of us who cringe at the words of those who demand retaliation of any kind, just so long as it happens quickly.

The night of the attacks, there was a poll that asked what should America's immediate response be. While over 70% wanted caution, and wanted to make sure we have the right people, more than 20% advocated an immediate attack!

This is amazing to me. When given the choice of a) kill somebody now...and b) let's wait, find the sleaze that did this, and punish them...1 out of 5 Americans just want to kill somebody.

In other words, 1 out of 5 Americans are basically terrorists themselves? I hope this isn't the case, and that some were just angry, or misunderstood the question.

 

[floppa21]

Well how about if that same group was cheering the death and destruction in NY? I saw that here in Denver. I agree with the anti racism, but damn!!! I don't think I could be non-violent if I saw that again.

 

[Dell19]

Something needs to be done but its hard to do something without other innocent people dying. I agree with most of the things mentioned above and its not really suprising that 1 in 5 voted to kill someone now because that is how plenty of people cope with a tragedy. Their first thought is to get revenge.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Dell19 ]</p>

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by MrLeN:<br /><strong>I was saddened to see footage of people from the middle east dancing in the streets, and being handed candy for doing so, but this is the effect of propaganda, and oppression.</strong><hr></blockquote>The ambassador of Palistina responded to this saying that he felt ashamed for this. "It has happened sporadically, but exactly this has made the news."

 

[VoodooAce]

I certainly don't know any of the answers. I do know that I am deeply hurt, and that I feel that same emotion that most Americans feel....I want some kind of revenge. It is a natural human reaction.

I also know that if my only son were hurt by these acts, that desire would be felt a thousand fold.

So let's say we do this thing, get Osama, but also kill a few civilians that have nothing to do with him, or us. Let's say there is a guy there just like me. And we kill his son. That man, this human being, will feel the same towards us as we do now against Osama.

Does he have any less right to revenge than us?

Just a question cuz, as I said, I don't know the answers. A great part of me would like to see him (Osama) dragged through the streets of NY by a rope and let the people do what they would....

And part of me wonders what would happen if America were to stand up and say, "Enough! There is too much grief in this world, and we will not add to it." Truly naive, eh?

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: VoodooAce ]</p>

 

[RedWolf]

My Mother talked to a person yesterday who's opinion was "Let's just wait until the pilgramages at Mecca and then bomb them all into the stone age".

Angry or not.. I consider this person to be a moron - There level of morality is on about the same level as the terrorists flying those planes tuesday. That sounds harsh but it's how i feel.

There have already been reports of Muslim and Arab children being bullied and beat up at local schools around here.. A mosque in Australia was fire bombed... A school bus full of Muslim children was stoned (i didn't hear WHERE.. i just heard it happened)

That sort of rage and absolute stupidity makes me want to just give up on the human race. Have we learned nothing from our past?

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: RedWolf ]</p>

 

[stormerne]

"Many that live deserve death.<br />And some that die deserve life.<br />Can you give it to them?<br />Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.<br />For even the very wise cannot see all ends."<br />-- Gandalf

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Redwolf-

I was saddened, but not altogether surprised, to hear of the violent reprisals against Muslims and Middle-Eastern ethnics in the wake of the terrorist acts in NYC and the Pentagon. Americans I know(I'm one myself, so I know quite a few) are all in a very similar state mentally.

We are seething. A cold ball of rage is slowly building within our collective guts, and we are waiting, for the most part, for a target upon which to unleash our anger. Until we have that target, most of us will do nothing but direct our every effort to those things that we are able to do to support the victims and the relief effort.

In Syracuse, over $250,000 was raised just today in a radio charity fundraiser, and that figure is only accurate to noon local time. Donations of clothing for the rescue workers are pouring south into NYC, and my chest of drawers will be much emptier tomorrow. There is a 3 hour wait to donate blood by appointment, and noone is leaving without a bandage on their arm, and a cookie in their hand. America has banded together under this threat, not to huddle in fear, but to make a united front. The airlines have resumed domestic flights, and travellers stand patiently in line for security checks that probably make El-Al's looks positively lax by comparision.

Once again, a cowardly attack has awoken a sleeping giant. That giant is now carefully examining his surroundings, thumping a club into his empty left hand, looking for the perpetrator. My advice to any who know, is to point that giant in the right direction, and run like hell the other way.

I see that none of the incidents you mention occurred in America. Our president strongly condemned in advance any such reprisals by Americans citizens, and thus far, I have heard of no local(IE in America) reports of criminal activity directed against such targets. I hope that that holds true.

 

[VoodooAce]

Exactly, Red.

People who would do such a thing fail to realize their hypocrisy. It's human nature, unfortunately, to believe that your side is on the right....the good fighting the evil. When, in fact, it is these people, no matter which group they belong to, that are the truly bad guys.

Fact is, as much as it sucks, the right wing always wins out, whether they be palestinian suicide bombers, the Israeli ordering the rocket strike into a neighborhood filled with women and children, the guy who thinks that he's going to heaven by flying a plane into the Trade Center, or the hick in America saying we should bomb the hell out of all of 'em, afterall there are always casualties in war.

There are people on all sides of these conflicts asking their side break the cycle of violence. But, as I said, the right wing always wins out and the violence is perpetuated.

A lot of people in America think 'liberal' is a bad word. But it's ok if the liberals on the other side win out. Hypocrisy = Right Wing

 

[jc011]

Well, my civics teacher said that those people are only a few people out of the entire population, you can't go prejudicing (no clue how to say this) them.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Originally posted by VoodooAce:<br /><strong>And part of me wonders what would happen if America were to stand up and say, "Enough! There is too much grief in this world, and we will not add to it." Truly naive, eh?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hope not. I feel this is a turning point. We cannot go on living our lives the same as before. We can deal in ways of the past no longer.

How superficial does not computer games or hollywood movies seem now? They can hardly be therapy, either, because reality has shown to penetrate everything we know, in a way that no creator of films or computer games could ever imagine. I can hardly comprehend the pain just yet, myself, and I can understand if people much closer to the events than I, will need a lot of time to comprehend what has happened. This is needed. Personally I feel it's like it struck right next door. And I know that I'm profoundly changed, even if all this happened a thousand miles from where I live.

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by VoodooAce:<br />[QB]<br />People who would do such a thing fail to realize their hypocrisy. It's human nature, unfortunately, to believe that your side is on the right....the good fighting the evil. When, in fact, it is these people, no matter which group they belong to, that are the truly bad guys. <br /><hr></blockquote>

I remember learning in school about the Japanese internment during Wold War II. We were always taught how wrong his was. Looking back at it I remember how ludicrous it seemed. "How could people DO that? I thought, "How could they blame an entire ethnic group? When most of them committed no crime" It's generally accepted that it was a dark period in my country's past... Fear fed by already existing racism to the point of an "aceeptable" human rights violation.

Yet we're DOING IT AGAIN! I hear people all around me telling me how evil Muslims are and that they all deserve to be bombed. People are so angry at the actions of a few that they're wiling to take innocent life - not even considering the fact that THIS will tarnish THEIR souls to the same extent as these vicious terrorists.

Whenever I hear someone tell me "Lets just bomb the bastards" I just think "you sir are a vicious dangerous person that's too stupid to think for yourself". I've lost respect for several fellow co-workers over the last few days due to this.

Amid all the saber rattling and political rhetoic not once have I heard even somebody in the media mention how similar this incident was to the spark that started World War I.

Do we all forget? The assasination of Arch Duke Franz Ferninand... An ultimatum... An unsatisfactory response... a declaration of War... Military Alliances falling into place... A War unlike the world had ever seen... Millions of soldiers and civilians dead. Afterwards we asked "Why? For what reason? Was it worth the massive loss of life?" Even today we look at it as a stupid pointless war.. an overreaction that pulled the entire world into a brutal senseless conflict that never had to happen.

Although the human race always seems determined to let it happen, lets hope that history isn't doomed to repeat itself.

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by MrLeN:<br /><strong>I have little doubt that the United States of America and allies will deal with those responsible in a humane manner. I do not believe that civilians will be "blown up", as I have seen suggested.<br /></strong><hr></blockquote>

MrLen,

The CNN website has a voters poll today. The exact question asked was:

"If Afghanistan does not hand over Osama bin Laden, should the U.S. bomb Kabul?"

Here is the response as of Friday September 14,2001 3:51PM

<br />Yes: 79%<br />No: 21%<br />

For the sake of innocent Afghan people I hope that you are right. However I believe that this poll demonstrats how the United States will probably react.

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: RedWolf ]</p>

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

"Many that live deserve death.<br />And some that die deserve life.<br />Can you give it to them?<br />Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.<br />For even the very wise cannot see all ends."<br />-- Gandalf <hr></blockquote>

Sorry man ,but i guess i don't truly understand all that.(i mean ,the first 2 sentences ,OK ,but the rest?)<br />But it looks kinda mystical and profound.<br />Please ,show me the light about this one.

 

[G-Man]

Today people dancing in the streets might not be a common thing to see, but I'm afraid in the future you'll see them everywhere. Look at picture of children in a Palestinian school, which like all schools there is funded by terror groups.<br />

<br />These kids are tomorow's suicide bombers. The US must put pressure on goverments that support this.<br />I wouldn't like to see a religios war between Muslims and Jews/Christians, but appearantly some people do, and these people are trying to unite all muslims for their struggle against non-Islamics. If the US don't want to fight against muslim countries from Africa to the pacific, you must firs stop the children brainwashing against you (and against us)