Do Pantheon Beliefs Spread Like Follower Beliefs?

[smellymummy]

once you have a religion the pantheon won't spread anymore and you have to rely on the religion to get there, but yeah new cities in pressure range of converted ones tend to flip pretty fast

 

[steveg700]

Only founder belief is founder exclusive. The rest of the beliefs will benefit u as well. So for example u might not get happiness from cermonial burial (founder belief) from other civilization's religion but u will be able to build mosques if the religion has that follower belief.

That doesn't compute. For instance, the point of spreading a religion with the Just War enhancer is to get a bonus attacking cities that follow your religion. But if they receive Just War as well, then both sides are getting the 20% bonus. Pointless.

 

[smellymummy]

that enhancer type belief is only going to benefit the founder, not the followers

 

[steveg700]

Well, it's been stated here repeatedly that all beliefs except the founder belief are propagated.

 

[smellymummy]

pantheons and follower beliefs are part of the propagated modifiers. bonuses such as just war have the same designation in the database as the messiah enhancement one for example. since messiah is obviously just for the founder, it goes without saying that just war is the same

where this can get confusing is as byzantium, where the extra belief you can chose is a mix of all three that are still available

 

[AfterShafter]

once you have a religion the pantheon won't spread anymore and you have to rely on the religion to get there, but yeah new cities in pressure range of converted ones tend to flip pretty fast

So, just to confirm, when my religion spreads, my pantheon is attached to it always?

 

[smellymummy]

So, just to confirm, when my religion spreads, my pantheon is attached to it always?

yes it is

 

[AfterShafter]

Wahoo, thanks! You are not nearly as smelly as I suspected

 

[AriochIV]

That doesn't compute. For instance, the point of spreading a religion with the Just War enhancer is to get a bonus attacking cities that follow your religion. But if they receive Just War as well, then both sides are getting the 20% bonus. Pointless.

Only one side gets the bonus. Just War and Defender of the Faith specify "enemy" and "friendly" cities, respectively, so only the attacker is getting the bonus in the case of Just War, and only the defender is getting the bonus in the case of Defender of the Faith.

 

[steveg700]

pantheons and follower beliefs are part of the propagated modifiers. bonuses such as just war have the same designation in the database as the messiah enhancement one for example. since messiah is obviously just for the founder, it goes without saying that just war is the same

For a lot of folks, it went without saying that pantheon beliefs don't transfer to foreign. And yet...here we are.

Only one side gets the bonus. Just War and Defender of the Faith specify "enemy" and "friendly" cities, respectively, so only the attacker is getting the bonus in the case of Just War, and only the defender is getting the bonus in the case of Defender of the Faith.

If enhancer beliefs spread to foreign cities, as the person I replied to stated, then the bonuses would apply in a sense that's relative to their friends and enemies.

So, the bottom line seems to be thus: enhancer and founder belief benefits don't tansfer, but pantheon and follower beliefs do.

 

[Babri]

Do u have any evidence that enhancer only works for founder ? IIRC I've seen religious pressure of my religion increasing in even foreign cities & so do the cost of missionaries decrease with a holy order enhancer for other followers.

Regarding Messiah it doesn't work for other civs because the prophet naturally born (pre-industrial) to other civs doesn't belong to the religion having messiah, for example if Arabia founds Islam (enhancer=messiah) while England founds Christianity & then afterwards London accepts Islam, a prophet born in London would still be christian not muslim so it won't benefit from messiah. A bit confusing but this is how it works I think.

 

[yorkgrass]

So there is still no final answer? Anyone?

 

[BrotherInJah]

This is THE answer:

So it appears to me that

When you found a pantheon it automatically spreads to all of your cities and will be present in any new ones - this is certainly what has happened in my current game.

Pantheons on their own do not spread to foreign cities - the fact that there is no distinction given to each seperate pantheon on the hover tooltip would suggest this, and I've yet to see otherwise.

When a religion is founded pantheons become part of that religion, and spread along with it, replacing any other pantheons that may be present - again assumed rather than proven.

Bearing in mind the above, it may be best to pick pantheons such as faith warriors with extreme care, as should you then go on to form a religion, and have it spread to your rivals, you'll find them benefitting from the 30HP per turn. Not good as a warmonger.

And in BNW with sopol you gain Pantheon of second rel in your city. Desert stone with +3 or pearls +2 and +1

 

[JustinianIV]

So, my pantheon just got wiped out in all my cities s save my cap. Why? Because someone spread their religion there. Sucks.

 

[sunbeam]

This makes me curious about Byzantium. Say they are a neighbor, found Eastern Orthodoxy, and their religion has a bonus belief due to their unique ability.

Let's say Eastern Orthodoxy in this case has Stone Circles as the Pantheon belief, and Byzantium took Earth Mother as the bonus belief.

When Eastern Orthodoxy spreads to your cities, do you get Stone Circles and Earth Mother as part of the religion that spreads to you?

Think I am going to play a game now and check this out.

PS, I have played a lot of games as Byzantium, and barring good luck on resources you would be tons better off with Ethiopia's unique building as opposed to that bonus belief. Occasionally it really works out though when you get scads of fishing boats or something. But usually you are looking at the found a religion screen wondering what might be useful.

 

[Browd]

Yes. The Byzantium bonus belief behaves the same as that belief does when included in any other religion. Since pantheon beliefs behave like follower beliefs when incorporated into a religion, if she takes an additional pantheon belief, you get both pantheon beliefs when her religion becomes majority in your city. If, on the other hand, she takes an additional founder belief, you do not get the benefit of that belief, since only the founder benefits from founder beliefs. etc. etc.

 

[beetle]

PS, I have played a lot of games as Byzantium, and barring good luck on resources you would be tons better off with Ethiopia's unique building as opposed to that bonus belief.

It is comparing apples and oranges though, but I pretty much agree with you! I also play a lot of Byzantium because I keep feeling like there is so much potential synergy for the UA that I cannot quite make work.

Yes, two pantheon beliefs can be very strong, which was quite counter-intuitive for me. I also like picking up Papal Primacy plus my usual Tithe -- but that is a little too passive for my tastes. My favorite thing is still what I tried first -- getting two enhancers.

 

[Sarin]

It is comparing apples and oranges though, but I pretty much agree with you! I also play a lot of Byzantium because I keep feeling like there is so much potential synergy for the UA that I cannot quite make work.

Yes, two pantheon beliefs can be very strong, which was quite counter-intuitive for me. I also like picking up Papal Primacy plus my usual Tithe -- but that is a little too passive for my tastes. My favorite thing is still what I tried first -- getting two enhancers.

I think strongest combo is three followers for Byzantium. I'm currently running a game (Marathon, huge with 22 civs) as Byzantium, and thanks to the UA I was able to grab both Cathedrals and Religious Community...two best follower beliefs IMO. Third (from enhancing) was Divine Ispiration...the top tier beliefs were taken by then, but it still tied well with my tall, wonderspamming strategy. Two good pantheon beliefs...that's pretty hard to pull off on large maps with many civs and decent difficulty, most of the useful pantheons will be gone by the time you get religion.

I never really liked the choice of enhancers though...usually I pick Messiah just to grab it from AI to prevent it from spamming me with prophets too much.

 

[shaglio]

I think strongest combo is three followers for Byzantium. I'm currently running a game (Marathon, huge with 22 civs) as Byzantium, and thanks to the UA I was able to grab both Cathedrals and Religious Community...two best follower beliefs IMO. Third (from enhancing) was Divine Ispiration...the top tier beliefs were taken by then, but it still tied well with my tall, wonderspamming strategy. Two good pantheon beliefs...that's pretty hard to pull off on large maps with many civs and decent difficulty, most of the useful pantheons will be gone by the time you get religion.

I never really liked the choice of enhancers though...usually I pick Messiah just to grab it from AI to prevent it from spamming me with prophets too much.

As Byzantium, my favorite strategy is to take Religious Texts with my Bonus Belief, then take Itinerant Preachers with my Enhancer Belief. Higher religious pressure with an extended range will make your Religion spread like wild fire. And if you take Tithe as your Founder Belief, that'll lead to a huge Gold influx.

 

[Sarin]

As Byzantium, my favorite strategy is to take Religious Texts with my Bonus Belief, then take Itinerant Preachers with my Enhancer Belief. Higher religious pressure with an extended range will make your Religion spread like wild fire. And if you take Tithe as your Founder Belief, that'll lead to a huge Gold influx.

Yeah, at the cost of buffing the AI . I prefer isolationist approach with religion, pimp it up and hog it for myself and few neighboring CS.