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Do Pantheon Beliefs Spread Like Follower Beliefs?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by steveg700, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. smellymummy

    smellymummy King

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    once you have a religion the pantheon won't spread anymore and you have to rely on the religion to get there, but yeah new cities in pressure range of converted ones tend to flip pretty fast
     
  2. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    That doesn't compute. For instance, the point of spreading a religion with the Just War enhancer is to get a bonus attacking cities that follow your religion. But if they receive Just War as well, then both sides are getting the 20% bonus. Pointless.
     
  3. smellymummy

    smellymummy King

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    that enhancer type belief is only going to benefit the founder, not the followers
     
  4. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    Well, it's been stated here repeatedly that all beliefs except the founder belief are propagated.
     
  5. smellymummy

    smellymummy King

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    pantheons and follower beliefs are part of the propagated modifiers. bonuses such as just war have the same designation in the database as the messiah enhancement one for example. since messiah is obviously just for the founder, it goes without saying that just war is the same

    where this can get confusing is as byzantium, where the extra belief you can chose is a mix of all three that are still available
     
  6. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    So, just to confirm, when my religion spreads, my pantheon is attached to it always?
     
  7. smellymummy

    smellymummy King

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    yes it is
     
  8. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    Wahoo, thanks! You are not nearly as smelly as I suspected :)
     
  9. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    Only one side gets the bonus. Just War and Defender of the Faith specify "enemy" and "friendly" cities, respectively, so only the attacker is getting the bonus in the case of Just War, and only the defender is getting the bonus in the case of Defender of the Faith.
     
  10. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    For a lot of folks, it went without saying that pantheon beliefs don't transfer to foreign. And yet...here we are.

    If enhancer beliefs spread to foreign cities, as the person I replied to stated, then the bonuses would apply in a sense that's relative to their friends and enemies.

    So, the bottom line seems to be thus: enhancer and founder belief benefits don't tansfer, but pantheon and follower beliefs do.
     
  11. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    Do u have any evidence that enhancer only works for founder ? IIRC I've seen religious pressure of my religion increasing in even foreign cities & so do the cost of missionaries decrease with a holy order enhancer for other followers.

    Regarding Messiah it doesn't work for other civs because the prophet naturally born (pre-industrial) to other civs doesn't belong to the religion having messiah, for example if Arabia founds Islam (enhancer=messiah) while England founds Christianity & then afterwards London accepts Islam, a prophet born in London would still be christian not muslim so it won't benefit from messiah. A bit confusing but this is how it works I think.
     
  12. yorkgrass

    yorkgrass Warlord

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    So there is still no final answer? Anyone?
     
  13. BrotherInJah

    BrotherInJah 60% of the time works every time

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    This is THE answer:

    And in BNW with sopol you gain Pantheon of second rel in your city. Desert stone with +3:c5faith: or pearls +2:c5faith: and +1:c5production:
     
  14. JustinianIV

    JustinianIV Warlord

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    So, my pantheon just got wiped out in all my cities s save my cap. Why? Because someone spread their religion there. Sucks.
     
  15. sunbeam

    sunbeam Warlord

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    This makes me curious about Byzantium. Say they are a neighbor, found Eastern Orthodoxy, and their religion has a bonus belief due to their unique ability.

    Let's say Eastern Orthodoxy in this case has Stone Circles as the Pantheon belief, and Byzantium took Earth Mother as the bonus belief.

    When Eastern Orthodoxy spreads to your cities, do you get Stone Circles and Earth Mother as part of the religion that spreads to you?

    Think I am going to play a game now and check this out.

    PS, I have played a lot of games as Byzantium, and barring good luck on resources you would be tons better off with Ethiopia's unique building as opposed to that bonus belief. Occasionally it really works out though when you get scads of fishing boats or something. But usually you are looking at the found a religion screen wondering what might be useful.
     
  16. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Yes. The Byzantium bonus belief behaves the same as that belief does when included in any other religion. Since pantheon beliefs behave like follower beliefs when incorporated into a religion, if she takes an additional pantheon belief, you get both pantheon beliefs when her religion becomes majority in your city. If, on the other hand, she takes an additional founder belief, you do not get the benefit of that belief, since only the founder benefits from founder beliefs. etc. etc.
     
  17. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    It is comparing apples and oranges though, but I pretty much agree with you! I also play a lot of Byzantium because I keep feeling like there is so much potential synergy for the UA that I cannot quite make work.

    Yes, two pantheon beliefs can be very strong, which was quite counter-intuitive for me. I also like picking up Papal Primacy plus my usual Tithe -- but that is a little too passive for my tastes. My favorite thing is still what I tried first -- getting two enhancers.
     
  18. Sarin

    Sarin Warlord

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    I think strongest combo is three followers for Byzantium. I'm currently running a game (Marathon, huge with 22 civs) as Byzantium, and thanks to the UA I was able to grab both Cathedrals and Religious Community...two best follower beliefs IMO. Third (from enhancing) was Divine Ispiration...the top tier beliefs were taken by then, but it still tied well with my tall, wonderspamming strategy. Two good pantheon beliefs...that's pretty hard to pull off on large maps with many civs and decent difficulty, most of the useful pantheons will be gone by the time you get religion.

    I never really liked the choice of enhancers though...usually I pick Messiah just to grab it from AI to prevent it from spamming me with prophets too much.
     
  19. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    As Byzantium, my favorite strategy is to take Religious Texts with my Bonus Belief, then take Itinerant Preachers with my Enhancer Belief. Higher religious pressure with an extended range will make your Religion spread like wild fire. And if you take Tithe as your Founder Belief, that'll lead to a huge Gold influx.
     
  20. Sarin

    Sarin Warlord

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    Yeah, at the cost of buffing the AI :D. I prefer isolationist approach with religion, pimp it up and hog it for myself and few neighboring CS.
     

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