[GS] Do Religious Buildings Need Buff?

[Lily_Lancer]

I never choose a religious building belief unless I'm Arabia. The religious building seems too bad. You hardly get any return from it.

190 production, or 380 faith cost, for 4 faith per turn (3+1 from excess GP point), and 2 science/food/production/faith, or 1 amenity/housing/slot? All of these seem uninteresting. Especially when you don't get era score, nor eurekas or inspirations, from completing the Holy Site buildings as other districts do.

It seems that I never build nor faith purchase any of such things.

Shall we make them better? For example, make Choral Music & Feed the World applies to Religious Buildings? Or let religious buildings provide +1 faith to all unimproved wood and rainforest tiles in city? Or let religious buildings provide +50% religious pressure?

 

[UWHabs]

At least they're cheaper than other T3 buildings, but yeah, even if you value the science/production/etc.. 2:1 to faith, then it's still going to take almost 50 turns to pay off (380 faith to buy, 4+2*2 per turn) without even counting your current focus on time value of money.

A lot of this comes back to the general utility of most T3 buildings, and they are even worse because by the time you get them, their great person point loses almost all value.

Maybe a simple upgrade would be that after a certain point they should provide tourism (since in modern times, synagogues/Wats/etc... are fairly large tourist attractions). And while that's not a big bonus, it's at least something. Or since they like to merge tourism and culture, if they gave +2 culture and +2 tourism at Enlightenment, for example, that would at least potentially give them enough yields to be much more worth it. As it stands now, I tend to get them just because I hate to have unfinished districts.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

A lot of this comes back to the general utility of most T3 buildings, and they are even worse because by the time you get them, their great person point loses almost all value.

.

In the recent patches in fact other T3 buildings are not that bad. For example, research lab provides 16 science and 1 GP per turn with 440 cost, that's not bad at all.

 

[Victoria]

make Choral Music ... apply to Religious Buildings

It does. There have been times with 2-3 religious city states it seems pretty good as it is gold in another form but I take it for rock bands if I am not playing agressive. Especially as choral music does help. RV/CV do not need tier 3... often.

 

[kaspergm]

It does.

99 % sure Choral Music only applies to Shrines and Temples, not the religious building (Cathedral, Pagoda, etc.). But enlighten me if I'm wrong. Choral Music is already very strong as it is, no need for a buff imo.

Btw. I don't agree that religious buildings are bad. If you take Theocracy, the cost is only 320 faith. That's only like 3-4 turns of faith if you have a moderately religious focused game. +2 science or production or +1 amenity per city is pretty good imo. It's a question of making an investment of converting faith upfront into other yields and getting the faith back in the long run. Faith is most useful late game to buy great people anyway. It may not be worth it if you play win-as-soon-as-you-can 150T style of game, but for "normal" players like me, they feel balanced.

 

[Victoria]

Silly me, I just consider shrines and temples religious buildings. I mean they are after all. Certainly enough to get what I need.

 

[acluewithout]

Yes, T3 Religious buildings are weak. But I think it’s more about Religious Beliefs needing a rebalance generally.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Yes, T3 Religious buildings are weak. But I think it’s more about Religious Beliefs needing a rebalance generally.

Yes , especially I'd like to say that all founder's beliefs are terrible. They used to have Papal Primacy, however they changed it to a useless one. So there's no useful Founder's Belief now.

 

[KayAU]

Agreed. I think religion in general is underpowered in Civ VI. I suppose this might be a result of religion now primarily being a victory condition, where it previously used to be a way to boost your civ.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I don't even buy it in religious games. A long time ago I tried to use them in Cathedrals for Russia but there is only so much art.

The worship building is terrible and besides Arabia only exists to trick newer players. Not only do you need to pay faith to buy it, but you also need to waste a apostle to unlock where you could have picked up something that uhh... sucked less. It's usually a waste of faith. Maybe the one that gives 1 spread?

I think all the religious beliefs like Choral Music should apply to it too.

 

[Bangau]

Mosques are quite good for a religious victory, don't you think? All the others are more for flavor I agree.

 

[The Highwayman]

Most of them are terrible. I fail to see how Mosques are bad for religious victories though - they'll pay for themselves and you only really need a few. I just finished a domination game as Russia and chose Cathedrals as the extra slot allowed me to take advantage of those GAs since Russia gets them for free via the Lavra and not too many museums were built in the process. Aside from that, yeah, Arabia is the only one that can bother.

 

[Isengardtom]

I don’t think the buildings need a buff but I think the active apostle spreading and promotions need a nerf

one nerf would be (probably a very unpopular one but here goes) : get rid of the Yerevan suzerain bonus.
Another one is reduce the power of active spreading in favour of buffing passive pressure

also I think the AI choice pattern needs rework as they always pick the same order
1) always warrior monks
2) always Devine inspiration

 

[Arraz]

For example, make Choral Music & Feed the World applies to Religious Buildings? Or let religious buildings provide +1 faith to all unimproved wood and rainforest tiles in city? Or let religious buildings provide +50% religious pressure?

Choral Music is Op enough the way it is right now. Religious pressure is mostly useless right now (Already tried spamming religious project + had Jerusalem and still, the religious expansion was barely noticeable) so it wouldnt change much.

To be honest, I think an easy way to improve religious buildings is to lower their costs (1/10th of what it is right now) .
Ofc, arabia's bonuses would changes into something else like "double the effect of all holy site buildings". (ok, maybe that one would be too op x) )

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Choral Music is Op enough the way it is right now. Religious pressure is mostly useless right now (Already tried spamming religious project + had Jerusalem and still, the religious expansion was barely noticeable) so it wouldnt change much.

To be honest, I think an easy way to improve religious buildings is to lower their costs (1/10th of what it is right now) .
Ofc, arabia's bonuses would changes into something else like "double the effect of all holy site buildings". (ok, maybe that one would be too op x) )

That's a good idea, make everyone Arabia, make Arabia double Arabia.

 

[Elhoim]

one nerf would be (probably a very unpopular one but here goes) : get rid of the Yerevan suzerain bonus.

Definitely agree.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Cathedrals are good for cultural victory

 

[bbbt]

Yes , especially I'd like to say that all founder's beliefs are terrible. They used to have Papal Primacy, however they changed it to a useless one. So there's no useful Founder's Belief now.

The one where you get +2 faith per foreign city isn't bad if you are going for a religious victory, but that's about it.

 

[Arraz]

That's a good idea, make everyone Arabia, make Arabia double Arabia.

You re the one who said : "I never choose a religious building belief unless I'm Arabia. The religious building seems too bad."
Basically under the current circumstances, Arabia is the only civ that somehow really has a use for these. So yeah "making everyone Arabia" doesnt sound that bad. As for the bonus change for Arabia, I dont really know what to pick...
It seems simpler than reworking the whole religious pressure model...

Cathedrals are good for cultural victory

Really?...With Cathedrals you lose the theme bonus...And they can only contain religious art. (Which is the most common early-mid game = > Not so hard to get themed museums)

 

[The Highwayman]

^exactly. Religious is easiest to theme, and fairly early depending on who you get after Mikey/Donny. As I said earlier, domination with Russia can utilize the Cathedrals best since you’re gaining the points from the Lavra and TSs aren’t needed all that much for that victory condition. With choral music and a cathedral, that’s 9 culture per turn from a holy site. Not bad.