Do you believe we are alone in the universe?

[sourboy]

I think if we were to put one on we could have far more interesting conversation. That said, would you actually be interested?

I've noticed a lot of Minnesota-CFCer's here, so I've actually expected it to happen - especially considering how well known you and rmsharpe are. Throw in others like Drewcifer, Moss, etc...

Of course, posting more pics in the Astronomy thread would encourage me more

God, way to misread me! I never claimed that no other place can, I claimed that it might be true that the probability is so low that in a given finite object (a galaxy say, or the ovservable universe) the probability of finding life (especially intelligent life) could be pretty much zero.

The fact that life happened only says that the probability is nonzero, it says nothing about the probability of finding more.

Yeah, I know what you meant, I was just putting you on the spot. I was subtly pointing out too, that just because the probability is extremely low, doesn't mean it's not plausible to have happen a few times in our galaxy - considering how little we know. I mean you go to Calhoun and look at the little beaches and think 'gee, there's more stars in the Milky Way, than there are grains of sand here' - and it's hard to fathom. It's a number beyond our reasonable measure. This whole argument comes down to mildly what we believe, but more so - how much does a fraction of a percent really amount to?

 

[MRM]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up a common counter-argument against intelligent civilizations in our galaxy.

Premise 1: the Lifetime of a typical civilization is much greater than the time to reach a technological level slightly greater than ours, specifically, one enabling space travel to nearby systems with habitable planets.
Premise 2: Once it reaches that level, the civilization quickly becomes very "noisy" i.e. it spreads noticeable effects around the galaxy.
Premise 3: We don't see those effects.
Conclusion: there probably aren't any ET Civs in our galaxy.

3 is certain, 2 strikes me as highly probable, so that leaves 1. And if 1 is false, it kinda reduces the value of SETI...

I doubt that a civilization would ever spread outside it's galaxy because distances there are even greater - so the fermi paradoxon may only prove that there is no spacetraveling aliens in our galaxy - but there are 100 bilions of galaxies.

Next point - why do you think this disporve intelligent life ? That asumes that intelligent life will allways develop technology that enables spacetravel. But I don't think this is always the case. If you look at the moons in our solar system that contain significant amout of water, ( like europa ) than it's most times so much water that the surface would be completly flooded if this would melt - so the question comes up - can intelligent life develope our technology under water ? I have doubts about it ( no fire => no metal for example , or try to make chemical experiments under water - or what is with electricity ? )

 

[fishlore]

Um - comets have never been out of our solar system. They make up the Oort cloud....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud

Huh? So what you're trying to say is that you feel that there are no comets anywhere in the universe outside of the oort cloud? If that's the point you're trying to make you're incorrect.

 

[Perfection]

Yeah, I know what you meant, I was just putting you on the spot. I was subtly pointing out too, that just because the probability is extremely low, doesn't mean it's not plausible to have happen a few times in our galaxy - considering how little we know. I mean you go to Calhoun and look at the little beaches and think 'gee, there's more stars in the Milky Way, than there are grains of sand here' - and it's hard to fathom. It's a number beyond our reasonable measure. This whole argument comes down to mildly what we believe, but more so - how much does a fraction of a percent really amount to?

Well, I should probobly point out that Calhoun beach most likely has more grains of sand than the galaxy has stars very course sand has more than 250,000 grains of sand per cubic meter, so for 200 billion that comes to about two acres one meter deep of very course sand.

That said, I don't find it implausible that there is life (and perhaps intelligent life) in this galaxy. I just find saying one way or another with any factually little more than intellectual masturbation (I love that phrase).

 

[sourboy]

I just find saying one way or another with any factually little more than intellectual masturbation (I love that phrase).

I will be using this line in the next appropriate conversation, and probably many after...

 

[The Condor]

Now who are the six people who got abducted? Oh and due to the large amount of newer people in OT I felt like giving this thread a second chance for more people to post their opinions or make statements and stuff like that in it so please excuse the .

 

[Perfection]

Now who are the six people who got abducted?

What are you refering to?

 

[The Condor]

What are you refering to?

The fourth option of my poll which currently six people have chosen.

 

[Meleager]

Until proven otherwise, I believe I am the only intellegent lifeform in the universe.

Ofcourse, if I am not intellegent, then I would lack the capacity to measure my own (or your) intellegence.

Bacteria might think they are intellegent and that we are not.

This line of reasoning could prove to be completely unhelpful.

But, we just don't know.

 

[dee666]

we are not alone in the universe i am alien ... wen i went to america because i have a british passport they were like u alien