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Do you build Courthouse?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Choffy, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. Choffy

    Choffy One more turn

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    Playing emperor C3C, mainly looking for Domination / Conquest victory, I almost never produce Courthouse.

    Do you find it useful? What is the effect of courthouse? % of corruption reduction?
    In which cities do you produce it (range of corruption %?, city size)? Do you rush build it whenever available at the end of anciant age or do you wait later on?

    Thanks.
     
  2. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    I do not build courthouses generally. In long games, they can be worth building when you have nothing usefull to build.

    If you are a conqueror like you say, military units are almost always a better investment.

    What % they improve corruption depends on the actual corruption in the city.
    In low corrupt cities, say 30% corrupt or less, the courthouse will do very little, probably 1 shields and 1 or 2 commerce extra.
    In very high corrupt cities, say 75%+ corrupt, they will have a more significant effect, but building them will take very long in those cities and after the courthouse, they are still not productive even though their corruption now dropped maybe 10%.

    Medium corrupt cities, around 50% is where the courthouses can be worth it, however units, markets and libraries generally have a bigger reward for your investment. In these cities, i would build them after universities if going for a science game. In a conquest game, i prefer to win the game in middle ages.
     
  3. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    I feel that CH is best for fun games and players. That is you are rolling on the AI and can do as you please.

    If you are in a tougher game and going for a conquest/domination they are of limited value. I may put them in a city if it is very early in the game and I know it will play out for a long time.

    The main time is if I have a metro that is just a shield or two off of having the proper number for a unit. Say I am building 100 shield units and making 24 shields a turn. If I can get that 25th one, it is well worth it.

    I also slap them in captured metros, when I am making lots of leaders and cannot make another army right now.

    IOW there are spots that it an option, but not a norm for me.
     
  4. Fried Egg

    Fried Egg Prince

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    I build courthouses in all cities that have above negligable corruption and below hopelessly corrupt. Every city in between the two extremes really.

    I think they're great. They extend your core of productive cities which is a big deal in my opinion.

    I must admit that I don't understand fully how effective they will be before building them in a particular city. Is there a formula out there? All I know is that they are pointless to build in a city that has hardly any corruption and that are hopelessly corrupt.
     
  5. gmaharriet

    gmaharriet Ancient Crone

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    Same here, but if the game lasts long and into the modern age, I may use civil engineers to build them in even more corrupt cities. CE's reduce the build time significantly.
     
  6. Theoden

    Theoden Deity GOTM Staff

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    I usually build courthouses in those cities, that are close to having an acceptable production, but isn't so corrupted that it'll take forever to build. That is in carefully selected cities. Later in the game when I get the money to rush productions regularly, courthouses is usually one of the first I rush in cities I find to have potential; but at this point in the game I will have almost won anyway.
     
  7. eldar

    eldar ChiefTank

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    Second-"ring" and out (using the term loosely for C3C, obviously) cities will always get them, when I'm playing a long game - they need to be able to contribute the gold/shields/beakers, obviously.
    My FP city will always get one, because in tandem with a Police Station, the FP city gets zero corruption. Again, only when playing for tech rather than military.
    Military win, no need, if it needs a CH to even out the shields I'd rather build some other unit.
     
  8. BobCW

    BobCW Warlord

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    I generally go commie in most of my games, so I'll end up building a great deal of couthouses. If I'm not in communism and don't plan on ever switching to it, however, I'll only build them when it will greatly improve a strategic city (such as a ironworks spot that's far from the capital).
     
  9. Heroes

    Heroes Heroes of Might and Magic

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    Alexman has an excellent analysis about corruption: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/corruption_c3c.php.

    Basically, courthouse decreases distance corruption by half, and rank corruption by increasing optimal city number (Nopt) by 0.25*OCN. Here OCN is the optimal number of cities for the map size, e.g., 20 for standard size, and 28 for large. Simply saying, Nopt is the number of cities whose rank corruption < 50%, and courthouse can increase this by 5 or 7 for standard or large map. Therefore, I think courthouse is the 1st choice to build.
     
  10. Desertsnow

    Desertsnow πr²

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    I build courthouses starting in cities that are not too corrupt to be worth the effort and working toward my more productive cities, or a productive city first if it's a wonder-building city.
     
  11. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    In the latest patch of C3C, a courthouse could potentially generate one content citizen. That would be my only reason for building a courthouse and I usually build it when I have nothing else to build.
     
  12. rysingsun

    rysingsun King

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    i build them about as often as i build banks which is rarely until later in the game. early in the game they cost an awful lot for what they give me. after i have factories and switch to communism they seem like a better deal.
     
  13. Atreides

    Atreides Chieftain

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    courthouses are great! they more then make up for their cost in specific . increasing a city from 2 shields to 10 shields is definetly worth it. lower corruption also means extra happy faces from lux etc. as said before they are most worthwile in decent sized cities with mid range corruption. don't botrher building them in your capital, PF city or extreem fully corrupt cities as they won't do anything.
     
  14. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Where are you increasing from 2 to 10? At 2 shields it is tough to build much. Better to make a cannon or a worker or even wealth, depending on where the game is at the time.
     
  15. Fried Egg

    Fried Egg Prince

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    vmxa
    Isn't that a very short term attitude? Once your courthouse is built, you can knock out cannons, etc. quite quickly anyway.
     
  16. Drakan

    Drakan Voluntas Omnia Vincit

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    Friedegg: Propain is you're man when it comes to C3C Military Advisor:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=83599

    I saw you edited you're post on the shields.

    It's how the AI is programmed.

    Naturally you can work out the maths and see if it's a wise investment, in your particular game depending on many factors, or not to spend extra shields on an offensive units (knight 70 sds, to follow your edited example) than rather a defensive one (swiss pikeman) which takes less shields (30 sds IRRC).

    http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/units/#special_units
     
  17. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    ha, show me a city that goes from 2 to 10 shields with courthouse.
    Show me please :)
     
  18. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

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    Moonsinger,

    I'm not sure how this works? When do you get a content citizen?

    Breunor
     
  19. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    No it is not, it is practical view. First if I have 2 net shields, I am not going to get 10 net after a CH. Second it cost me 80 shields and hence 40 turns were I get nothing at all from this town.

    This town could have sat on wealth and at least gave 1 gold. Now if I am in need of cannon or such, then I could sit on those same 40 turns and start seeing some bombardment.

    I would rather those corrupt places provide support in the form of pop and wealth, while I crank out unis in better places.

    By the time I am in position to have these corrupt towns/cities, I am on the move and taken down civs. I will be addinglots of these towns.

    I am going to put nothing in them. I am going to irrigate everything that will be worked, put all pop on either farming or specialist. They will be either scientist or taxmen, depending on what is going on.

    If I have a size 6, 3 farmers and 3 specialist are very nice. If size 12, double it or or less, depending on the food bonus available. what do I need a CH for?
     
  20. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    I'm not really sure about it either. This must be a new feature with the latest patch of C3C. My guess is that they were fixing corruption and somehow effecting happiness. In the previous patch as well as in PTW and vanilla Civ3, the courthouse do not contribute happiness. Here is a sample city with a courthouse:

    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/with_courthouse.jpg

    Here is that exact same city after I sold the courthouse:

    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/without_courthouse.jpg

    The courthouse generates 3 happy people in this example (note: this is one of many cities came from my 88K game posted at the HoF if you want to examine it further). Btw, the courthouse do not increase any shield in this case (2 shields with or without the courthouse).
     

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