It seems that no matter the difficulty, civ, map type or victory condition; I'm always the suzerain of over half the city states by the industrial era. I wouldn't say that I ignore the quests completely but I certaintly don't make them a priority. Anyone else have a similar experiance?
Do you ever struggle with Suzerain?
- Thread starter Softly
- Start date
Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,257
I do. I'm rarely suzerain of anything and sometimes there's like only two city states on my landmass.
Though to be fair I generally don't even look at the quests unless it's a city state I really want to have. I also run autocracy for a while so I don't use the diplo slot that much.
Though to be fair I generally don't even look at the quests unless it's a city state I really want to have. I also run autocracy for a while so I don't use the diplo slot that much.
Disgustipated
Deity
I usually don't get many suzerains until much later. but I tend to spread around envoys a bit for the generic bonuses which I find handy enough.
My current game is 650 BC and I am Suzerain with Stockholm (Greatest Earth map as Russia), 2 religious city states in the Middle East region were eliminated by AI civs, I only had 1 envoy with 1 of them from a quest. That's the only 3 I've met so far, now 1.
My current game is 650 BC and I am Suzerain with Stockholm (Greatest Earth map as Russia), 2 religious city states in the Middle East region were eliminated by AI civs, I only had 1 envoy with 1 of them from a quest. That's the only 3 I've met so far, now 1.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
Depends on what Diplomatic policies you use. The one that gives you 2 envoys as your first is simply OP if you know a lot of city states, since you're always going to trigger a few bonuses here and there. Happened in my current game when I got two free envoys from quests with Palenque and Stockholm before I got my first envoy tick.
If you only know a few city states (or have already sent envoys to most of them), then the other diplo policy (which gives you an envoy for half the usual amount of time) is definitely superior. Switch when needed.
It also depends on difficulty and your civics research. If you beeline for better government types, you simply get envoys more often. That's why it's more difficult on higher difficulties to remain a suzerain (since the AI gets to Early Empire sooner, as well as other civics which provide free envoys.)
If you only know a few city states (or have already sent envoys to most of them), then the other diplo policy (which gives you an envoy for half the usual amount of time) is definitely superior. Switch when needed.
It also depends on difficulty and your civics research. If you beeline for better government types, you simply get envoys more often. That's why it's more difficult on higher difficulties to remain a suzerain (since the AI gets to Early Empire sooner, as well as other civics which provide free envoys.)
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2011
- Messages
- 11,902
+2 per turn is just rubbish. That's a lot of turns for a single envoy but the double envoy card you can get 3 or more extra in a single turn. The AI civs use it all the time.
Gunboat diplomacy at +4 is not much better, I'll use it if I need to open borders.
@Softly do you play much deity? What @chazzycat says always happens there, or worse.
If you race ahead in culture of course you will get advantage and suze more often. One of the advantages is building commercial hubs early for the extra envoys.
If you get ahead in culture you can really rack up the free envoys. And you should basically always be using the 2-for-1 first envoy card if you're going to put the first envoy there. I mean, even if your next policy card was 10 turns away, you're giving up maybe 20 points of envoys for a free one. Or if you're running the dollars per envoy card, maybe it's 100 gold that you give up, but if it means getting to the 3rd envoy on the city-state faster, it can definitely pay off. And if you put even a modest amount of effort to completing quests, that can really add up.
One thing to keep in mind too is that you get new quests each era. So as you're getting close to the end of an era, that's a great time to run through the CS list and see what makes sense to get done. Or if you can't complete a mission, it can also pay off to purposefully fail it. So if I have 2 or 3 city-states asking me to get the get the eureka for a tech that I know I'll never get, it might make sense to research it anyways so that next era they give me a new challenge. Or a lot of times, if I have a couple city-states asking me to build a spearman, it might be worth it to basically spend the couple hundred gold for 2 envoys.
One thing to keep in mind too is that you get new quests each era. So as you're getting close to the end of an era, that's a great time to run through the CS list and see what makes sense to get done. Or if you can't complete a mission, it can also pay off to purposefully fail it. So if I have 2 or 3 city-states asking me to get the get the eureka for a tech that I know I'll never get, it might make sense to research it anyways so that next era they give me a new challenge. Or a lot of times, if I have a couple city-states asking me to build a spearman, it might be worth it to basically spend the couple hundred gold for 2 envoys.
rschissler
King
I've never specifically done a quest. I always have too much else to worry about.
leandrombraz
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2014
- Messages
- 1,443
I always try to synchronize this kind of stuff. If I want to use the 2 for 1 policy (Diplomatic League), I research a civic into there's one turn left, then I switch to another Civic, preferably one that give me envoys, this way I only spend one turn with Diplomatic League and if I want to send Envoys to more than one CSs, I can do all in the same turn. I only keep this kind of policy for more turns than I need if I really can't afford to delay a specific Civic.
kaspergm
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 5,792
I disagree, fights over city states are often fierce in my games, even more so with the "good" ones (Yerevan, Kandy, Stockholm, Hattusa, Morenjo-what's-its-name, etc.). I can normally hold the industrial ones, because they tend to be my priority, and AI seems to underprioritize those, but among the rest, it can be a toss between location, luck and who's in the game.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2011
- Messages
- 11,902
I'll only put 6 in. If I really want suze and it is being contested then I will save up my envoys rather than encouraging them to keep putting more in, sometimes it works.
Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,257
I usually would aim only for 9 on blue CS's and sometimes yellow. I don't have enough of the other districts in a typical game to make use of 9.(or really 6). The faith ones I do like because that's more due to their suzerain bonuses, so as little effort as possible
It really boils my urine when you get 30-odd turns into an otherwise enjoyable game only to realise there are NO city states within a fifty hex radius of your capital.
Does anyone else feel CS should be spread more evenly across the map? Finding a cluster of them early doors has to be equivalent to dropping a difficulty level.
Does anyone else feel CS should be spread more evenly across the map? Finding a cluster of them early doors has to be equivalent to dropping a difficulty level.
Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,257
Absolutely.Whoever meets the religious/science CS's has such a big advantage...
On the flipside, I had one game where I had 9 city-states on my continent, and only one other neighbour (who was dead fairly early). So at one point I think I had 8 suzerains with 3 envoys each, with none of them having any competition.
liv
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2010
- Messages
- 1,394
Do they get those instantly. It probably give you some advantage as it leaves them in the game and limits how fast the AI can expand
We probably have to be more precise in how we characterize late game and provide more specifics we are going to compare our different findings and find out what the situation is with envoys or suzerainty at the end of the game.
But I avoid vasting my envoys on those kind of fights
If you want to win the suzerain game. build the Apadana, and then prioritize building wonders in your capital city. I have had several immortal games where I was suzerain of over a dozen city states, and sometimes every CS on the map.
Similar threads
