amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
I don't play on the official world maps made by Firaxis (when you zoom out, those things look terrible!)
But, I also enjoy a kind of semi-historical game.
But, I also enjoy a kind of semi-historical game.
Do you like playing on real world map or randomly generated one?
- Thread starter TETurkhan
- Start date
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
Well, no. I don't play on the Firaxis maps either. You call that Britain?
The map I play most of my current games on is the Marla Singer map with a couple of my own revisions for the sake of my own games. It's by far the best map I've found yet, but there were a couple of little things I felt should be changed, like how Sakhalin is attached to Hokkaido. Nothing wrong with that really, it's just that it suited my purposes to separate them.
Kal-el
Deity
One of the challenges of a world map is taking a stinker location and making it work.
Obviously people like to play on Earth Maps, just check out the number of downloads some of the earliest earthmaps on the site have had.
Obviously people like to play on Earth Maps, just check out the number of downloads some of the earliest earthmaps on the site have had.
MadHatter
Warlord
Playing a better World Map sounds interesting, where do I find the "Marla Singer" map?
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Some people here and in the creation forum are confusing downloads with value.
I have personally downloaded a number of the world maps and accurate regional maps just to look at them. They do look sortof cool and I am amazed at the work people put into them. One factor that often comes out is an issue that Teturkhan has raised about having to trade out some innacuracies in the coastal terrain types to get the coastline outlines or river tracks to match up with what the map maker thinks may look more like the real world. Just an interesting example or priorities here, I would be worried more about how the map played, while others will be more concerned about how curved the coast may be.
The fact that someone may download a unit file or a leaderhead set does not imply in any way that these features have value. Some people will just be interested in seeing what someone else thinks that Hitler would look like in the game or what a dragon unit might be.
We do not have a valid assessment tool that says something is valuable outside of the references you may see in game reviews or documented reuse of the components. When you see snoopy's terrain graphics used all the time in screen shots thats a good reference.
Download count is just a measure of how the description draws interest in the files' content. People who download Hiltler or Napolean are interest in Hitler or Napolean and this gives you no indication of the praise or vomit factor that someone may have for the content of the download once they unzip it. 90% of all free downloads are never used due to many factors.
I have personally downloaded a number of the world maps and accurate regional maps just to look at them. They do look sortof cool and I am amazed at the work people put into them. One factor that often comes out is an issue that Teturkhan has raised about having to trade out some innacuracies in the coastal terrain types to get the coastline outlines or river tracks to match up with what the map maker thinks may look more like the real world. Just an interesting example or priorities here, I would be worried more about how the map played, while others will be more concerned about how curved the coast may be.
The fact that someone may download a unit file or a leaderhead set does not imply in any way that these features have value. Some people will just be interested in seeing what someone else thinks that Hitler would look like in the game or what a dragon unit might be.
We do not have a valid assessment tool that says something is valuable outside of the references you may see in game reviews or documented reuse of the components. When you see snoopy's terrain graphics used all the time in screen shots thats a good reference.
Download count is just a measure of how the description draws interest in the files' content. People who download Hiltler or Napolean are interest in Hitler or Napolean and this gives you no indication of the praise or vomit factor that someone may have for the content of the download once they unzip it. 90% of all free downloads are never used due to many factors.
Kal-el
Deity
Very true, but there is also the underused rating system, which allows for some immediate userfeedback, and the forums themselves offer a clear indication of what the users think of the various downloads.
Granted not everyone posts on the forums, but one can read through a file's thread and get a good feeling for what the communtiy feels is its relative value.
Granted not everyone posts on the forums, but one can read through a file's thread and get a good feeling for what the communtiy feels is its relative value.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Kal-el,
You have produced some good stuff, but don't jump to the mistake of using data from a self-selected response to imply good content. The fact that 6 people post messages saying that this is the coolest would map that I have every seen or that 6 people post messages saying "Hey, this Napoleon is cool; He looks just like the pirate on Sponge Bob" does not balance the 7,000 people that bypassed the information or the 35 users that downloaded the content and unzipped it never to be seen again.
Some of this discussion reminds me of the story of the secretary that kept using whiteout to correct typos on the screen in her word processing programs.
You have produced some good stuff, but don't jump to the mistake of using data from a self-selected response to imply good content. The fact that 6 people post messages saying that this is the coolest would map that I have every seen or that 6 people post messages saying "Hey, this Napoleon is cool; He looks just like the pirate on Sponge Bob" does not balance the 7,000 people that bypassed the information or the 35 users that downloaded the content and unzipped it never to be seen again.
Some of this discussion reminds me of the story of the secretary that kept using whiteout to correct typos on the screen in her word processing programs.
Jimcat
Culture Vulture
Like many people, I found the world maps provided with Civ3 to be less than satisfying. The worst problem was not so much their inaccuracy, as the fact that you couldn't start out in a civ's historical location. I played one game with the "Babylonians" in Africa, and after that just stuck to random maps.
In Civ2, I would play almost exclusively on the largest Earth map. My favorite civs to play on Earth were the Romans, Americans, Zulus, and occasionally the Chinese.
In Civ2, I would play almost exclusively on the largest Earth map. My favorite civs to play on Earth were the Romans, Americans, Zulus, and occasionally the Chinese.
Kal-el
Deity
Cracker,
The aspect of your comment that ruffles my feathers the most is the overall tone. For some reason, and I dont know if this is intended or not, you tend to come off as if you think that yours is the only valid opinion when it comes to all things Civ related. And that we should all bow down to your decrees from on high. I am afraid it just doesnt work that way.
I find it fascinating that you assume to speak for most of the people who play Civ3. My experience has been the complete opposite of what you profess. I find that most people that I have talked to prefer to play on accurate Earth maps. I dont claim that I am in contact with 99.9% of the Civ3 gaming community, and maybe you are, but clearly there is a niche out there for accurate maps. And for those people, these sorts of maps are a godsend. We all know the shoddy job that Firaxis has done with their half-arsed versions of the world, maps like the one here and others, provide the user with a better gaming experience. Even if it is for only one or two games, I know that I appreciate the work that creators have done in developing maps, units and other mods, and I am sure those people who play with these mods appreciate all the hard work too.
I realize that you are trying to get people to channel their creative juices in what you deem to be more productive avenues, but you need to understand that a major reason that these mod creators work so hard on these things is because they really enjoy the process. I know that, for me personally, I much prefer the actual modding creation process than the actual game playing. That may change if I ever finish my mod and get a chance to really play it, but for now as Pesoloco says, modding civ3 is more fun than playing it.
I think you will find that there are a lot of people out there who really do enjoy playing Civ on a good earth map. And that they are not just playing one or two games on a world map just to exercise a test of their familiarity factors. And that they do in fact play games over, and over, and over again on a world map, because they find it fun to play as the different civs in an attempt to replicate or counter actual earth history. It is the same reason that people like to play as their own civ, its fun. Civ3 professes to be an historical simulation, granted it falls short in many areas, and many people find it fun to play a historical simulation on an accurate earth map.
Others, like yourself, just see civ as a basic strategy game, which is fine too, and therefore do not get the same pleasure from playing on earth maps. All I ask of you, cracker, is that you open your mind a bit more to the other facets of the game that so many of your fellow civers find so much fun. Just because it is not the way you like to play the game, does not mean that it is any less viable an alternative. That is the beauty of the game after all, it has many different aspects and can be appreciated on many different levels.
Try not to ruin everybody elses fun, ok.
The aspect of your comment that ruffles my feathers the most is the overall tone. For some reason, and I dont know if this is intended or not, you tend to come off as if you think that yours is the only valid opinion when it comes to all things Civ related. And that we should all bow down to your decrees from on high. I am afraid it just doesnt work that way.
I find it fascinating that you assume to speak for most of the people who play Civ3. My experience has been the complete opposite of what you profess. I find that most people that I have talked to prefer to play on accurate Earth maps. I dont claim that I am in contact with 99.9% of the Civ3 gaming community, and maybe you are, but clearly there is a niche out there for accurate maps. And for those people, these sorts of maps are a godsend. We all know the shoddy job that Firaxis has done with their half-arsed versions of the world, maps like the one here and others, provide the user with a better gaming experience. Even if it is for only one or two games, I know that I appreciate the work that creators have done in developing maps, units and other mods, and I am sure those people who play with these mods appreciate all the hard work too.
I realize that you are trying to get people to channel their creative juices in what you deem to be more productive avenues, but you need to understand that a major reason that these mod creators work so hard on these things is because they really enjoy the process. I know that, for me personally, I much prefer the actual modding creation process than the actual game playing. That may change if I ever finish my mod and get a chance to really play it, but for now as Pesoloco says, modding civ3 is more fun than playing it.
I think you will find that there are a lot of people out there who really do enjoy playing Civ on a good earth map. And that they are not just playing one or two games on a world map just to exercise a test of their familiarity factors. And that they do in fact play games over, and over, and over again on a world map, because they find it fun to play as the different civs in an attempt to replicate or counter actual earth history. It is the same reason that people like to play as their own civ, its fun. Civ3 professes to be an historical simulation, granted it falls short in many areas, and many people find it fun to play a historical simulation on an accurate earth map.
Others, like yourself, just see civ as a basic strategy game, which is fine too, and therefore do not get the same pleasure from playing on earth maps. All I ask of you, cracker, is that you open your mind a bit more to the other facets of the game that so many of your fellow civers find so much fun. Just because it is not the way you like to play the game, does not mean that it is any less viable an alternative. That is the beauty of the game after all, it has many different aspects and can be appreciated on many different levels.
Try not to ruin everybody elses fun, ok.
DaDoo
Prince
:spitflame:
Anyways! I used to like to play on world map in civ2 for a while. But like a few posts pointed out, it does get a bit predictable. not to mention the fact if you build hoover dam on the eurasian continent, all of europe, asia, and africa continent will reap its benefit. I have yet to play on a world map on civ3 and I don't know if I want to or not.
hrm..now where's that constipated look...
Anyways! I used to like to play on world map in civ2 for a while. But like a few posts pointed out, it does get a bit predictable. not to mention the fact if you build hoover dam on the eurasian continent, all of europe, asia, and africa continent will reap its benefit. I have yet to play on a world map on civ3 and I don't know if I want to or not.
hrm..now where's that constipated look...
One factor that often comes out is an issue that Teturkhan has raised about having to trade out some innacuracies in the coastal terrain types to get the coastline outlines or river tracks to match up with what the map maker thinks may look more like the real world. Just an interesting example or priorities here, I would be worried more about how the map played, while others will be more concerned about how curved the coast may be. Cracker
You are mistaken Cracker, and you assume far too much. Who said I wasnt concerned about the playability of the map? Not me YOU did. As a matter of fact, I AM working on a mod specifically for this map. And I am giving the mod the same attention I did in creating the map.
The thing I dont like about your posts, is that you undermine peoples work. You cast negative remarks about it, and the funny part is I dont know why? In creating a world map did I do Civ3 a disservice? Did I take away from the game somehow? No, instead I contributed by giving it an incredably accurate world map. You dont lose by people working on such thigns, so why do you spend so much time writing your posts discouraging them?
As for World maps, they can be very challenging too. All you need to do is randomize resources, starting locations or play different Civs etc...
finally question for all of you who like random maps...
Which maps give can give you a bigger challenge? A random generic one made by the game or one that has been modified, tweaked, you name it so it gives you the best challenge?
This Poll was set up wrong (my fault) - It should of read:
Which maps pose the greatest challenge:
1- MAN MADE
2- COMPUTER MADE
You are mistaken Cracker, and you assume far too much. Who said I wasnt concerned about the playability of the map? Not me YOU did. As a matter of fact, I AM working on a mod specifically for this map. And I am giving the mod the same attention I did in creating the map.
The thing I dont like about your posts, is that you undermine peoples work. You cast negative remarks about it, and the funny part is I dont know why? In creating a world map did I do Civ3 a disservice? Did I take away from the game somehow? No, instead I contributed by giving it an incredably accurate world map. You dont lose by people working on such thigns, so why do you spend so much time writing your posts discouraging them?
As for World maps, they can be very challenging too. All you need to do is randomize resources, starting locations or play different Civs etc...
finally question for all of you who like random maps...
Which maps give can give you a bigger challenge? A random generic one made by the game or one that has been modified, tweaked, you name it so it gives you the best challenge?
This Poll was set up wrong (my fault) - It should of read:
Which maps pose the greatest challenge:
1- MAN MADE
2- COMPUTER MADE
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
I have never played on a custom map, or with modified rules. I am one who sees civ as basic strategy, so I don't care about the realism much. I think it's cool that so many people make the custom worlds, because it adds more depth to the game as a whole. Maybe after I play some more games I'll start playing with some of the modified games for fun - I just probably won't look at the maps before starting (can you do that?), so I can be surprised when exploring. And I'm bad enough with geography that I can even be surprised on Earth maps.
Sunny
Empire Builder
I REALLY like Marla Singer´s Earth Map !!! 
Think it´s the best World Map outthere ....
I usually play on maps of the world or the meditereanian sea area etc,...
but I must admit it feels a bit like cheating since I already know how the map looks ...
but I just cant resist those strategical places to build cities on!! REALLY LOVE THAT!!
Think it´s the best World Map outthere ....
I usually play on maps of the world or the meditereanian sea area etc,...
but I must admit it feels a bit like cheating since I already know how the map looks ...
but I just cant resist those strategical places to build cities on!!
REALLY LOVE THAT!!
sela1s1son
King
Originally Marla's map had a program that let you set up historical locations, altough somewhere I lost it. Now with the new Editor, you can set up historical locations. So on occasion a world map game may be fun. However, I think the World Map is better suited for scenarios.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2000
- Messages
- 12,615
Obviously the download counter doesn't tell the number of players who downloaded the file AND like it. What it does tell is the enormous amount of interest in player-created contents.
In fact, those player-created contents have kept Civ2 alive for the last few years. Lots of Civ2 creators (such as Nemo, Harlan, Ellis, etc) are well respected in the Civ community for their work, and CivFanatics has a special Hall of Fame section dedicated to those individuals. I am sure eventually we will have a similar section for Civ3 creators.
I see no reason to belittle the hard work of Civ3 creators.
pesoloco
Civ-aholic
Actually I say CUSTOMIZING civ3 is more fun than playing it, but like it makes a difference.
I like randomly generated maps when using an expansionist strategy. I like not knowing how the world is shaped because it adds more to the exploration element of the game.
I do like playing on real world maps and I want to congratulate Kal-El on making such an accurate map.
I play the world map a few times (complete opposite of Civ2. ). I also played the map that came with the game (from 1.07), and the tiles seem to be messed up. I can't seem to irrage left/right/up/down, and tiles that are on a river bend don't count as river-tiles. I had a game going once, but stopped after strange things started happening.
I may play more of the modded maps (but with reset rules, and maybe some resource changes). Marla's map is great for adding extra resources because of the size.
). I also played the map that came with the game (from 1.07), and the tiles seem to be messed up. I can't seem to irrage left/right/up/down, and tiles that are on a river bend don't count as river-tiles. I had a game going once, but stopped after strange things started happening. I may play more of the modded maps (but with reset rules, and maybe some resource changes). Marla's map is great for adding extra resources because of the size.
