Do you prefer the Shongai to Poland?

[Chopin]

I don’t think that it was a good idea of Firaxis to add the Shongai instead of Poland. Many people have never heard of the Shongai. They are just another name of Mali. But everybody knows Poland. Poland has really great importance in history. Copernicus was the first person in history to say that the earth moves around the sun and he is Polish!!!

In Civ IV there is Mali already so the Shongai is not new, it’s always the same thing as before For Civ V it will be much better to have something new like Poland.

Let’s hope we still have time to convince Firaxis to correct this mistake!

 

[PibbZ]

I'll be careful with what i say here in order to avoid harming anyones national pride, but...

From a game design point of view, it's always impossible to please everyone, and definately in a game like Civilization. Even tho Poland have influenced the world in several ways, there are other civilizations and nations that have had a bigger impact when you look at the big picture. I guess it's just too many good alternatives to choose from.

 

[Ahriman]

They strive for some regional balance. The game really needs at least *one* representative of Sub-Saharan Africa.

 

[Danielos]

I think most people today only view Poland as a country that has constantly been bullied by more powerful neighbors. I don´t think that qualify Poland for anything other than being snack for the Germans in HoI-games...

 

[Dragonflow]

I think most people today only view Poland as a country that has constantly been bullied by more powerful neighbors. I don´t think that qualify Poland for anything other than being snack for the Germans in HoI-games...

You summed it up pretty well: a snack for Russia or Germany or an American Vassal. Although Poland was important in history but so was Switzerland and I don't see them included.

 

[Ahriman]

An American vassal?? Unless you're meaning the last decade (does a brief contribution of a few thousand troops make one a vassal?) then I have no idea what you're talking about.

But yeah, in terms of overall impact Poland ranks behind several other missing European powers (Austria-Hungary, Spain, arguably Portugal + Netherlands).

Chopin's music is awesome though

 

[Tee Kay]

I don’t think that it was a good idea of Firaxis to add the Shongai instead of Poland. Many people have never heard of the Shongai. They are just another name of Mali.

No they're not.

Think Spain and Portugal. Mali and Songhai have similar history but they're not the same.

 

[wolfigor]

Poland is a great country with a huge list of historical accomplishment that extend outside the mere boundary of today state.
Songhai never had any impact outside the relatively small region they inhabited in sub-saharian west Africa.

Even if you consider the Mali empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire) their impact outside the region is quite negligible.
The empire remained in the chronicles thanks to its very rich gold mines and their huge contribution to slave trade.

However what other Civ could be used for Sub-Sahara Africa instead?
We need this Civ for regional balance... we have plenty of European civs already

 

[Dragonflow]

An American vassal?? Unless you're meaning the last decade (does a brief contribution of a few thousand troops make one a vassal?) then I have no idea what you're talking about.

But yeah, in terms of overall impact Poland ranks behind several other missing European powers (Austria-Hungary, Spain, arguably Portugal + Netherlands).

Chopin's music is awesome though

I mean the last decade and along with the few thousand troops, Poland also wanted US Nukes stationed in it's country and in some cases Poland ignored the plans of the EU and instead did what the USA wanted. But several Eastern-European countries are acting like that lately.Also I'm not saying that being an American Vassal is anything bad, I guess Vassal is a bit of a wrong word what I meant was Satellite or easily controlled Friend.

 

[Chopin]

But Germany is not more imporant that Poland!!! Look this picture in 1600 Poland had much bigger empire:

 

[EMT]

But Germany is not more imporant that Poland!!! Look this picture in 1600 Poland had much bigger empire:

Oh nationalism, how I love thee. Bring on the Hungarians and Bulgarians next, and another round of Canada after that!

 

[Ahriman]

Next someone will start posting maps of Canada, or of Denmark including Greenland, or of Brazil to argue for their inclusion....

 

[krzysp]

It really grinds my gears lately. Some overly-nationalistic guys are enough to give my people a bad name.

But it's cool. In the meantime I've read some stupid thigs and I really got the impression that those authors really believed what they said

You have to remember: YOU do not control your goverment. As much as you'd like to - you do not. You have no impact whatsoever on Obama's policies as well as we do not control that our administration is pro-american (which never actually got us anything good).

WE did not want american nukes. WE did not want the anti-rocket protection. But... out leaders do.

If we actually had a vote - most of us would probably "limit" out connections to the US.
As history shows - friends don't count when everything falls down

Funny thing is... both parties that can win have the "same" foreign policy, how about that Sounds familiar?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yes, without a doubt Songhai is the better choice both from the view of impact and regional diversity. Granted, I know more about Mali than Songhai (although I believe Songhai had the larger empire), but the economic and cultural impact of the various kingdoms in the area is extremely underrated.

 

[Dragonflow]

It's not the size that matters, Greece was much smaller than say Brazil but Greece is in and Brazil isn't. You have to consider that Germany produced many scientific and cultural things as well. I'm not saying that Poland has less scientific or cultural influence, but Germany is a little more important.

Germany was pretty big as well.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[wolfigor]

Yes, without a doubt Songhai is the better choice both from the view of impact and regional diversity. Granted, I know more about Mali than Songhai (although I believe Songhai had the larger empire), but the economic and cultural impact of the various kingdoms in the area is extremely underrated.

Songhai impact?
I agree on their importance for gold and trade slave (without their help the Europeans would have had problems to get so many slaves for the american plantations).
but what other impact they had?

 

[Dale]

WTH is a Poland?

 

[Tomice]

These discussions got A TINY BIT annoying by now....

 

[krzysp]

I concur... they should be closed by a mod automatically.

 

[Danielos]

These discussions got A TINY BIT annoying by now....

Why would it be annoying? This is a discussion forum. What would be more natural than discussing what civs that should be in?