Do you still use specialized cities?

How does the fact that "the national wonders require all other cities to have a specific building" affect the city specialization strategy?

It seems like its just another way to discourage fast expansions and overly large empires. In Civ IV there was really no disadvantage to having a large empire beyond the economic recovery period of rapid expansion. In CiV there are several disadvantages to having a large sprawling empire, and the fact that you will probably never build a national wonder (or at least it won't be worth it to do so) seems to be one of them.

For the math folks:
6 hexes in the inner ring
12 hexes in the outer ring

This compares to the 8 squares in the old system with 12 in the outer part of the fat cross. So we have 2 fewer tiles to work in Civ5 then in Civ4. And it also takes a lot longer to fill out your fat hex.

You can actually work up to 3 hexes out from your city. Someone did the math, I think it was 36 total workable hexes. Not that I see anyone but maybe India ever getting 36 population anyways though.
 
Quite interestingly, the maritime city states in the demo only yield +1 in all cities/+2 in the capital (of course, they don't work at all in the demo but that's a bug) which leads me to thinking they might have recently been upgraded because the devs and testers perceived them as too weak. Maybe an overcompensation but with small numbers it's hard to get the balance right. Fractional food bonuses would probably work but not be aesthetically pleasing.

I think they stuffed the mechanic for maritime city states up.
It should have worked like this:
A fixed amount of food, allocated evenly to all your cities (with preference going to the larger ones/earliest founded if necessary to break a tie).

Cultural and militaristic city states are fine, as the bonus is flat - unscaled.
 
If you pay maintainance for multipliers, then city specialization is a no-brainer. You can't autobuild libraries anymore, because in production cities, you'd pay for them, while they don't do anything.

Well, that's not entirely true, since the base Research generated by your city is not at all a function of what's worked, and entirely a function of its population. So a production city might still want a library if it's size 12. On the other hand, you would not stock said library with specialists, since that _would_ detract from the specialization of the city towards production.
 
I think they stuffed the mechanic for maritime city states up.
It should have worked like this:
A fixed amount of food, allocated evenly to all your cities (with preference going to the larger ones/earliest founded if necessary to break a tie).

Cultural and militaristic city states are fine, as the bonus is flat - unscaled.

I would have been fine with you choosing a city for them to put it in or alternatively a city state class creating science points, too. I agree it's a bit strange that the bonus from Maritime city states scales with the number of cities. I guess it makes them a lot better than the others after the early game (I still don't have the game)?

Well, that's not entirely true, since the base Research generated by your city is not at all a function of what's worked, and entirely a function of its population. So a production city might still want a library if it's size 12. On the other hand, you would not stock said library with specialists, since that _would_ detract from the specialization of the city towards production.

Exactly. That doesn't mean you can't have specialised science cities but I think every city should have at least a library. If you use science = gold you need more than twice its maintenance in population to make a profit from it, which means 3 citizens, but science is probably worth more than gold so it makes sense to build it everywhere.
 
It seems like its just another way to discourage fast expansions and overly large empires.

Maybe, but I think it may be intended to force a choice; instead of having a military pump, research center, and a GP farm in nearly every game, you have to commit your entire empire along one line if you want a big shiny toy.
 
The way its been working for me so far:

If the city has lots of hills, clearly its a production city.
If it has lots of food/ riverside tiles I farm everything, grow it big, and build a library to make it a science city as science comes from population, also high food also has good synergy with running scientist specialists.
If it's neither of the above then it will be marginal but I like putting trading posts up and making a gold city. Trading posts seem average, but gold is so powerful that it can be a real help even if the city doesn't seem that great.
 
Someone mentioned specialised happiness producing cities - something I noticed was that the happiness buildings had more maintenance per +happiness.

Chain of happiness buildings:
Colosseum +4H/3g, cost 150
Theatre +4H/5g, cost 300
Stadium +4H/6g, cost 450

Requires horses/ivory
Circus +3H/3g, cost 150

As you can see, each building in the chain is more expensive than the last, both in production and maintenance. Also, to the best of my knowledge there is nothing that multiplies the happiness in a single city. Therefore, your best strategy is to just build a colosseum in every city.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
 
If you're going with a gold-heavy approach and rush buying everything, it doesn't make sense to consider theaters until you run out of places to put coliseums. If you don't have that much gold, you might need to stick a theater somewhere just because building a coliseum in a smaller city might take forever.
 
Maybe, but I think it may be intended to force a choice; instead of having a military pump, research center, and a GP farm in nearly every game, you have to commit your entire empire along one line if you want a big shiny toy.

Yeah, that's the way I see it too. You specialize cities with just the regular buildings because they take so long to build now. You specialize your empire with the National Wonders by making that specialized city super-specialized.
 
Chain of happiness buildings:
Colosseum +4H/3g, cost 150
Theatre +4H/5g, cost 300
Stadium +4H/6g, cost 450

Requires horses/ivory
Circus +3H/3g, cost 150

Looks right - but brings up a balance question. Why do circus buildings have the same upkeep cost but provide less bonus then the Colosseum? As a rule of thumb, if you have a building that requires a particular resource in the BFH (big fat hex) - it should be slightly better to offset the need to acquire that resource.

...

With big cities being able to work up to 36 potential tiles and buildings being expensive, city specialization is I think now pretty important.

Also, consider a coastal city as a production powerhouse due to Lighthouse (+1 food per water tile) and Seaport (+2 hammers per water tile worked). Assuming that Lighthouse doesn't only boost coastal tiles but also the tiles that are 2-3 away from the coast, levering a Seaport + Lighthouse looks pretty powerful for very little investment (no need to upgrade all those tiles).
 
I'm pretty sure Seaports only give +2 hammers to sea resources. i.e. Things like pearls, fish, whales, but not to regular sea tiles.
 
So I was thinking that if you want to use the National Wonders [NW] to specialise cities then it would pay to do this early in your empires existance.

The reason for this is you have to build less pre reqs to enable the NW's. Luckily the techs that unlock the NW's come before you are likely to have a large empire (even Education if you bee line/bulb towards it).

This does reqire making some very early choices about city location (like second and third city) that may not be as strong location wise as later in the game but you have to remember that an early advantage is more powerfull than a later one. Also these choices are made less painfull by the large area a city can now cover, so if you have generally the right terrain/resourses to go for a specific NW then its probably worth it.
 
Yes, I specialize cities, but not the way most people are thinking.

In any empire, you'll have a core of "original" cities where you'll build every structure. Every one of these cities will have a Barracks, Library, etc.; note that National Wonders require every city you possess at the time the thing is built to have a certain building. Coincidentally, many national wonders come pretty early in the game. (Many of the later ones aren't much of a downside. For instance, look at the Ironworks: needs a Workshop in every city. No matter what you want to specialize a city in, a Workshop is a good investment.)

So your first five or six cities have Barracks, you build the Heroic Epic, and then from that point on you can expand without having to build more Barracks. This isn't Civ4 where you needed a large standing army; a few good combat units will suffice, so you don't need to support unit production in every city. Besides, most of the prerequisite buildings are the dinky 1-cost ones; it's not a big deal to have a few more of these than you really need, so even if that Library wasn't really necessary in a city, build it anyway.

That being said, in the long term I'll usually have a half-dozen high-production cities, two of which will be specialized for land military units (Forge, Barracks, Armory, etc.) and one for naval units. Again, these will almost always be my starting cities; cities you acquire later in combat, or that you settled later on, just won't have the time to build all the necessary structures, so those will specialize.
(Ironically, the +50% railroad bonus will apply to all of these except for your capital, so invariably the capital ends up being a money/research town surrounded by heavy industry.)
 
Personally, on Prince, I'm finding that things like Barracks are simply too expensive and not needed against the AI (fortunately). Buildings have huge costs in Civ5, disproportional costs. Combine that with not being able to have more then 7 cities before zero AD (Marathon/Large) due to happiness constraints and you've got a real bottleneck.

There's a lot more demands on gold in Civ5 then there was in Civ4 - you're going to need at least 7 gold/turn to keep each city-state happy for instance. And if you don't ally with at least one city-state by 2000 BC, you're going to rapidly fall behind the rest of the world.
 
1. A single production city for wonder spam. Spamming wonders generally also turns it into a culture/GP city on its own.
2. Money cities

That's about it. Money gets you nearly anything in this game, and making a bunch of non-money, non-wonder buildings kills your income with maintenance. Why waste time and maintenance making a bunch of production cities for your army when you can just make them gold cities instead, letting you instantly buy the unit from any location while also allowing you to use the gold for other purposes when need be? Like paying off city states for food so you don't have to waste tiles on farms. Which also gets you extra resources and a war ally. Or forming research pacts, which give you absurd amounts of beakers for the price.
 
A lot of the strategies I'm seeing for cities involve not building things. Is there a way to tell your city to build nothing (before you can produce wealth/research) without hitting shift-enter to force end of turn?
 
There's not. What you can do is either set it to build some random wonder, which will give you failure gold if someone beats you to it, or just build a scout and delete it when it finishes to get gold.
 
On marathon a scout takes one of my cities about 6 turns to make and I get 30g back when I delete it. That works out to 5g/turn.

To beat that with the "wealth" choice in the queue - I would need a production capability of 50 hammers/turn. Very few cities manage that. In fact a city with 50 hammers/turn could probably make a scout in 3 turns instead of 6 turns, raising the gold/turn to 10.

It's very cheesy...

(And there's a lot of game balance where you don't want to do things - like build new buildings, or settle new cities - because it puts you in the hole. Which is a bit anti-fun for builder types that like a bit of empire to go with their war.)
 
I'd put a monument, library and granary in every city, and then whatever is needed. More culture is nice, but everything past a monument is really expensive. Same with the university and later science buildings.

The granary gives +2 food for -1 gold, you can simply use it to allow your city to work an extra production or gold tile instead of food, and keep it growing.
 
The sad thing is there are achievements for getting a city with 100 culture per turn (City of Lights), or 100 science per turn (City of Science), or 100 gold per turn (City of Gold). (Strangely, none for 100 production.)

It looks like nobody's going to get any of those without serious cheating.
 
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