Do you use Submarines

[Argetnyx]

Nobody seems to like submarines. i think they are very useful.





they are a fast-make effective naval unit that has the advantage of being hidden. yes, when the AIs find one, they automatically declare war, but if they start shipping invading forces on transports, i can pick out the transport out of a whold e stack of units.

 

[againsttheflow]

I checked "I love them" but I'm never thinking much of the absolute most strategic thing to build at that point in the game. It's usually won or lost long before, but even if I were in a tight corner I'd probably still build a couple for special missions--that's often the way they're used in RL anyway.

 

[Argetnyx]

I'd probably still build a couple for special missions--that's often the way they're used in RL anyway.

'special missions'


have you ever heard of U-Boats

 

[againsttheflow]

that's often the way they're used in RL anyway.

said with u-boats..and the present day in mind

 

[Moosezilla]

Evil!!!! lol I mean c'mon, if they worked like real ones you couldn't bump into them!

 

[Bugfatty300]

I always build a handful. Most I leave in port. Some I send on life-long patrols to recon shorelines and occasionally stealth sink an enemy Galleon or Transport.

The stealth attack is what makes the sub a useful unit. They can twart an invasion single-handedly with out having to fight all the battleships the AI stacks on top of the transports.

But for some reason they're always get killed by enemy bombers far out at sea so they don't last long.

 

[Argetnyx]

said with u-boats..and the present day in mind

U-Boats were the feared German submarines who almost destroyed British shipping in both WWI and WWII. American subs in the Pacific also almost destroyed Japanese shipping in WWII.

Modern subs, as i see them, are only used for recon and fear factor. would you stop a war if a HUGE sub showed up with nukes on board?

 

[ronanp]

In international waters if another civs boat comes apon my sub and due to the subbug attacks it and declares war, do I get war happyness as if they just declared on me?

 

[TheOverseer714]

In international waters if another civs boat comes apon my sub and due to the subbug attacks it and declares war, do I get war happyness as if they just declared on me?

Yep.

U-Boat. Der Unterzeebooten, the bane of the seas during both WWs. If Germany had focused on blockading the UK, they could have strangled them before Japan got the US involved and made fortress europe nearly unassailable. Good thing Hitler wasn't much for strategy that worked.

 

[iambenben]

I use them but i sometimes wonder whether they are that good because sometimes I never manage to sink a battleship with them :|

 

[Argetnyx]

Yep.

U-Boat. Der Unterzeebooten, the bane of the seas during both WWs. If Germany had focused on blockading the UK, they could have strangled them before Japan got the US involved and made fortress europe nearly unassailable. Good thing Hitler wasn't much for strategy that worked.

thats cuz he was worried about the conquest of Europe. specifically Germanys worst enemy, France. The Germans did not have the resources either. Youre right though, it is a very good strategy.

 

[capnvonbaron]

WWII era subs were made obsolete by modern air power and surface ships. The main problem was that they could scarcely dive deep enough for long enough to avoid being detected. In WWI, aircraft were used in sub hunting to some success, but technological limitations prevented widespread effective use. Radar was non-existant and sonar was a fledgling technology. Fortunately, allies were able to manufacture more boats than the germans could manufacture torpedos to sink them!

Flash forward a couple of decades. Airplanes were built with greater range/endurance capability in WWII than in WWI, allowing them to travel further and hang out longer over ocean water to detect and kill subs (either catching them on the surface or seeing a snorkel). Use of surface radar and sonar allowed warships to detect subs on the surface and below, requiring them to stay submerged and limiting their effectiveness to some degree. There was a rather large task force of subs early in the war, but eventually sub hunting techniques became so honed by the allies that more subs ended up being sunk than what the subs were sinking. In the Pacific theater, the allies had air supremacy and a much larger fleet following Midway, allowing us to decimate Japanese shipping.

So, yet another case in which air supremacy and industrial might (ie, greater numbers) win the day. Too bad airplanes/helos can't "see" subs in CivIII like they can in real life recon missions.

This history lesson brought to you by KRAFT macaroni and cheese. The More You Know...

 

[Argetnyx]

at least theres somebody who knows what they are talking about

 

[Argetnyx]

another question: how useful are they?

 

[CarthageFTW]

Very, at least to a certian point. As a seafaring player, I've spent HOURS pouring over strageies in order to use them and find their best in some situations
1. the computer is using figrates and galleons and transports and it's a waste to attack the frigate and you want to destroy the transport
2. you see a HUGE stack of ships that you don't want to waste ships on and just stealth attack the transport
3. Inciting "accidental" wars. This one happens in very rare occasions, but if you fill a computer (or human) harbor with subs, they might accidentally attack them, thus starting war without you inciting it.

So mostly really just to take out transports. Other than that, they're not much worth the effort.

 

[Loki130]

I usually use them for recon or spread a few loaded nuclear ones offshore of every nation in the world. I particularly like it when the enemy doesn't have destroyers, then I can send a few in and pick off the enemy at leisure. I have been saved from many invasions by them. Plus there's the occasional time when a carrier runs into one of them. I was playing a world map once and watched the entire north atlantic with a sub screen-literally, not a tile was unwatched. Of course the sub bug is annoying, but I need an excuse for war anyway.

 

[Argetnyx]

Very, at least to a certian point. As a seafaring player, I've spent HOURS pouring over strageies in order to use them and find their best in some situations
1. the computer is using figrates and galleons and transports and it's a waste to attack the frigate and you want to destroy the transport
2. you see a HUGE stack of ships that you don't want to waste ships on and just stealth attack the transport
3. Inciting "accidental" wars. This one happens in very rare occasions, but if you fill a computer (or human) harbor with subs, they might accidentally attack them, thus starting war without you inciting it.

So mostly really just to take out transports. Other than that, they're not much worth the effort.

thats exactly what i do

 

[Sashie VII]

I love them, but to be honest they're not really all that useful. In my own games they're sort of a personal luxury unit build 'just because I can.' By the end of Middle Ages most of the time I have the game in hand, so I just do whatever I want.

Most commonly, I build nuke subs and load them up with tactical nukes. Then I go hunt for pirates or enemy ships.

 

[Taras Bulba]

they're useful... but not nearly as good in the game as they are in real life... or nearly as developed and incorporated as they are in real life

 

[molesworth]

Too bad airplanes/helos can't "see" subs in CivIII like they can in real life recon missions.

Yes, that is annoying. I only found this out the other day after adding two new units to my modded game - ASW aircraft and LAMPS Helo. I gave them the detect invisible flag and recon ability. Unfortunately I found out that when overflying an enemy submarine previously detected by one of my destroyers they couldn't see it. It might be possible that they can detect subs when loaded into a host vessel but I haven't fully tested this and it would only have limited usefulness anyway - e.g: to give carriers the ability to detect subs.

As I like the idea of keeping specialist ASW aircrfaft in my game I was thinking of giving them stealth attack ability but only against subs and/or naval units. Sorry to go off topic a bit but ASW aircraft was someting I wanted to discuss and this seemed like a good opportunity.

As to using subs myself I agree that they are only really good for coastal defence. Sometimes I will send them out as part of a larger taskforce of mixed ships but of course they limit the speed at which the taskforce can travel (as in R\L - apparently, after WW1, the Royal Navy unsuccessfully attempted to make a class of fast submarine "cruisers" that could keep up with the fleet).

I think nuclear subs would be more useful if they could carry cruise missiles as well as tactical nukes - can this be edited does anyone know?