Does anyone else think that India is a bit overpowered?

[FoolFromHell]

I mean, think about it.
Fast Workers. They are awesome! Can travel
NO ANARCHY, meaning no money cost when switching civics/religion.
Early access to Meditation/Polytheism, meaning you can get a Holy City right-off the bat.
Early access to Mining, meaning you can jump start your economy really quickly.

 

[LightSpectra]

You just described all of their positive traits, without actually saying why they're overpowered.

 

[FoolFromHell]

The positive traits that India starts with are superior to any other civ's bonuses.

 

[leftisthominid]

I'd agree. Those reasons explain clearly why I solely play with Asoka

 

[m9x]

well, that's why I eradicate anything Indian right off start. singleplayer of course. usually I rush them and Arabia in the Earth map (playing persia of course). pretty simple yet effective. egypt is left out of my rush usually tho

so, get rid of em quickly, and it's done with.

 

[FoolFromHell]

well, that's why I eradicate anything Indian right off start. singleplayer of course. usually I rush them and Arabia in the Earth map (playing persia of course). pretty simple yet effective. egypt is left out of my rush usually tho

so, get rid of em quickly, and it's done with.

How are you always near the real-earth geographical counter-parts?

 

[Thanny]

In vanilla Civ4, India with Gandhi is indeed a bit overpowered, because of the trifecta - Industrious (faster wonder building), Spiritual (no anarchy), and starts with Mysticism.

That's no longer the case with Warlords - Gandhi went from Industrious to Philosophical.

 

[Holywhippet]

What is the appeal of spiritual for people? I generally only play on warlord level admittedly, but I only ever get 1 turn of anarchy and I very rarely change civics. Generally I only change them when a better one comes along or when I'm forced into war.

 

[axident]

Most overpowered was Augustus Caesar prior to BtS. Creative = aggressive REX. Praets ftw. Organized so that winning those cities won't bankrupt you.

Holy city off the bat... eh, I don't know. You still need a prophet to get much use out of it, and more importantly, you sacrifice early worker techs and might be caught lagging behind in getting BW and unable to choprush key things fast enough.

 

[vicawoo]

Mining is awesome, mysticism I'm not so keen on. I'd rather have agriculture. I guess Mining > agriculture > hunting > mysticism > the wheel > fishing (unless you have fish). Hunting only because of the scouts.

 

[yavoon]

no, but they're ok.

 

[Mesousa]

What is the appeal of spiritual for people? I generally only play on warlord level admittedly, but I only ever get 1 turn of anarchy and I very rarely change civics. Generally I only change them when a better one comes along or when I'm forced into war.

Spiritual saves you several turns of anarchy over the course of a game in any case, and late in the game one turn of anarchy (for a change to Universal Suffrage or Emancipation, for example) can mean a huge loss of production, research, great person points, etc.
More importantly, Spiritual also allows you civic changes you normally wouldn't do. For example, in preparation for a war you can change to Vassalage/Theocracy to churn out some experienced units, and change back to Organized Religion or whatever your normal peace civics are, without any loss. During a crisis, you can switch to Nationhood for drafting, again without loss. Switch to Police State for war preparation or during the war when war weariness becomes a problem.
You can also easily switch state religions for diplomacy or holy city spying. Spiritual allows you powerful flexibility. It allows you to make the most of the civics available to you, something that without the trait is considerably offset by the huge losses anarchy means. And when you're going for a cultural victory, the cheap temples are nice too.

 

[CivDude86]

Fast workers are next to useles on marathon but then spirtual is extra useful on marathon.

 

[pi-r8]

Fast workers suck. Most of the time, they're no better than a regular worker because they build improvements at the exact same speed. Give me a military UU any day.

Mining is definitely the best starting tech since it leads to BW, but mysticism sucks. Why on earth would you want to found an early religion, rather than letting someone else found it and making the AI's fight each other over religion?

Spiritual is good, but I wouldn't say it's overpowered. It's of very little use in the early game, which of course is the most critical part of the game.

 

[axident]

By the way I am totally crushing everyone as Louis, so maybe France is overpowered. VERY powerful combo: Creative so forget stonehenge/monuments and crank out another settler or two, and you have great city placement potential off the bat AND cheap libraries. Industrious for cheap forges and wonders. I think I lost the race for only 2 wonders so far (Stonehenge and the Great Lighthouse). I intend to keep it to just those 2--I had gold and marble early and annihilated my neighbor for his stone. So I have Industrious + resource bonuses mean it doesn't cost me that much.

 

[Tristan daCunha]

Fast workers suck. Most of the time, they're no better than a regular worker because they build improvements at the exact same speed.

That isn't true. I just tested a worker and a fast worker, each converting a forest into a hamlet. The worker will do it 30 turns, the fast worker will do it 14 turns (this was at 910 BC)

mysticism sucks. Why on earth would you want to found an early religion, rather than letting someone else found it and making the AI's fight each other over religion?

Your question probably makes more sense in multiplayer than in single player games. The AI simply doesn't rush the player, allowing leisurely peaceful starts. Of course, in single player games the human can rush the AI so your point has merit. But often the early religions are located far from one's capital, making it costly to maintain its city.

The idea of mysticism and an early religion, I think, is to build Stonehenge. Its Great Prophet points will enable you to build the religion's shrine.

 

[m9x]

How are you always near the real-earth geographical counter-parts?

select custom scenario and pick Earth or Earth18Civs. you start where the civ would be in real life (almost).

I like that better than randomly generated masses

 

[AlessioCerci]

Does anyone think Maya are overpowered?
Holkans they are awesome, they dont need copper!
Cheap workers, improvements made earlier!
Early access to Meditation/Polytheism, meaning you can get a Holy City right-off the bat.
Early access to Mining, meaning you can jump start your economy really quickly.

Does anybody think Arabia is overpowered?
Camel archers are awesome, they require no resources.
NO ANARCHY, meaning no money cost when switching civics/religion.
Early access to Meditation/Polytheism, meaning you can get a Holy City right-off the bat.
Early access to the wheel, meaning you can connect resources really quickly.

Seriously this thread is soo pointless. India are not overpowered.

Edit: the ONLY benefit of fast workers is one xtra movement point. that is it. FACT.

 

[civvver]

A leader is only powerful if you exploit his traits. I play vanilla. Ghandi is quite powerful being spiritual and industrious, but if I'm not going to bust out a lot of wonders and/or build a religious based empire/economy then it's a bust. I actually have preferred playing mansa musa as of late (spiritual, financial).

I don't think any civ without financial could be called overpowered- financial is just way too good, in vanilla at least. Qi shin (spelling?) is probably the most powerful all around being industrious and financial.

 

[AlessioCerci]

The positive traits that India starts with are superior to any other civ's bonuses.

So you think fast worker > praetorian? hmmm....