Does anyone go to pacifism?

[AlphaShard]

The good : 100% great people generation
The bad : small army due to cost. How is this ever possible. Surely an AI will attack you if you have a substantially smaller army?

cheers

I've used Pacifism and go to war at the same time. You may have to pay for units but the upkeep is Low and cheaper then the other civics.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

A golden age triggered by a free great people (music artist comes to mind when you look at the tech tree) is a good occasion to switch in pacifism.

-> The set up:

Prior to the golden age, you grow 2/3 cities to big size (at your happy cap, which should be as high as possible).

-> During golden age:

Hire maximum specialists in those cities. You should be ready to loose some population points to make the most of pacifism.

-> What you get:

200% bonus in generating great specialists, 300% in your National Epic city. It can translate into 2/3 great specialists in the duration of the golden age. You switch then back in your favorite civic one turn before the golden age ends.


This strategy is very usefull to bulb up the liberalism path and/or when you get plenty of trading partners to multiply your gains from bulbs (this is the usual plan when going for scientists... several merchants can allows deficit research for quite some time too speeding up research, etc, etc,...).

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[cain3456]

I found pacifism useful for when I had an isolated start. Once others start finding you, switch out and build an army or you will get dogpiled.

 

[Iapetus303]

I rarely use Pacifism, mainly because I find the building (and wonder) production bonus from OR too value. I also haven't made much use of specialists in many of my games so far.

I've been doing a bit experimenting with a specialist economy though lately, and pacifism seems quite useful when combined with Rep, Caste, and Merc. Particularly now that I've discovered* of the strategy of using Caste to temporarily put a huge number of specialists in a city (starvation be damned) to get a great person in just a few turns.



* I never thought of doing it, until I was spying on Turkey in RFC and saw they were doing it in every city.

 

[obsolete]

I rarely use Pacifism, mainly because I find the building (and wonder) production bonus from OR too value.

Yup, org tends to win out usually, at least up to Immortal in most my games. Though the AI techs fast enough on deity to make pacifism worth it... pre 400 AD Lib...

 

[feelfreetodie]

Just a couple of comments, I havent played past monarch yet
pacifism is the cheapest to run, which allows me an extra 10% on the slider toward research or it cancels out the extra expense for army
if your army is that large that pacifism hurts you then you dont need to worry, just kill all around you with your huge army
Organized Religion is the most expensive to run, which keeps my slider down slowing my research, I thought 25% bonus only applied to building not wonders

Game i just completed, (vanilla civ4)

Org Rel - 286/turn
Theo - 263/turn
Pacif - 191/turn
Free Rel - 241/turn

comparing OR to pacifism, OR is costing you 95 gold/turn more, I believe the ratio is more or less the same in early game, not 95 gold/turn in early game but maybe 20-30 gold/turn but alot less units also
My point is that if it hurts you that much to go pacifism, how huge is your army?

I always run pacifism as soon as i am able to, its a huge advantage for the lib race and if you win that race the game is usually won by then.
Maybe I will see things differently as I move up in levels.

 

[blind biker]

I try to spread my religion quite well to my own cities and then use pacifism as soon as it becomes available. I think the GPs are incredibly valuable. But, I do suck at this game, actually, so mine is not a recommendation. I only finish 1/3rd of the games I start. Basically, I try to establish a well-connected and easily protected area early on, try to be in good relations with my neighbors and go for Temple of Artemis. If there is a particularly small and weak civ near me, I try to mop it up early on, but typically I don't do wars before rifling.

The only advantage of my otherwise crappy strategy is that it usually leaves various options open for victory. I end up having the necessary few high-culture, high-production cities, which could be useful for either space or cultural victories, if I can't go for dominion (mostly I go for cultural).

 

[kochman]

ToA may be one of the weakest wonders around...
You are much better off spending those hammers on axes and catapults.

 

[AlphaShard]

ToA may be one of the weakest wonders around...
You are much better off spending those hammers on axes and catapults.

I think Shadya Paya is weaker by the time you can build it you have most of the Relgious civics unlocked.

 

[blind biker]

ToA may be one of the weakest wonders around...
You are much better off spending those hammers on axes and catapults.

I agree, totally! That's why I meant to say "The Parthenon", but had a brainfart and confused the two while typing my post!

 

[Ataxerxes]

ToA may be one of the weakest wonders around...
You are much better off spending those hammers on axes and catapults.

I wonder how many players actuallly try to build it? I never have myself. I admit to being an OR addict, however, with some Pacifism. Even if you have a religious diplo problem, the additional military units might help more than 'Paya. Of course, I'm also usually in the AP religion if I can help it. The double votes make me feel more comfy.

 

[Dr.Null]

All the cool civs use Pacifism.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Time to change to Pacifism in a culture game is after the cathedrals have been built.

I agree, generally. The exception is where I am in a tight race with somebody like Masa Musa to discover Liberalism. That is where getting a Great Scientist faster can make the difference between winning and losing the race. Musa has been kicking my butt in my Immortal games lately. If he has a decent starting location and nobody attacks him, he is hard to beat.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

True, but you don't NEED to win the lib race in a culture game. It's nice if you do, of course.

EDIT: An extra great artist is probably better than a GS in that case, anyway.

EDIT: You play Ramesses anyway, you are spiritual Liz is the best for culture I think. EDIT: Gandhi is good too, as is Mansa (if you don't pick your opponents so as to have Mansa to trade with).

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

True, but you don't NEED to win the lib race in a culture game. It's nice if you do, of course.

EDIT: An extra great artist is probably better than a GS in that case, anyway.

EDIT: You play Ramesses anyway, you are spiritual Liz is the best for culture I think. EDIT: Gandhi is good too, as is Mansa (if you don't pick your opponents so as to have Mansa to trade with).

True, I don't always shoot to win the Liberalism race, but if it looks like I have a good shot at it, I take the opportunity. If the GS is necessary to win the race, I will take that every time vs. getting a GA on the same turn.

Masa, Ghandi, and Capac give me the most problems. I have never lost to Elizabeth. At Immortal, trading with Masa helps him more than me, because he won't give me an even trade. I only trade with civs that are no threat to beat me, normally the military dudes.

 

[i_imperator]

If your philosophical and have marble and a religion (either founded by the AI or you) then go pasifism, build wonders like the Great library, and the pantheon in your national epic city and you can bulb all your way to rifles and scientific method. I used it in my second emperor game and i was able to get a huge tech lead on the AI's just from running GP's. It can be done with any leader who has the above but the philo trait works best with it. Building the Mids can also help the BPT and the great scientist production, (but only if your industrious or/and have stone).

 

[Gabethebabe]

In a One City Challenge, Pacifism is huge. You will run it whenever it becomes available and stick with it until the very end.

 

[MrMestopheles]

Last game, pangea perfect map2, I was playing Korea and got pacifism pretty early thanks to oracle (I have marble). Second I was building lot of wonders. So I was producing and insane amount of great personalities. Have founded 4 religions, got 2 shrines -> 90 percent science rate.
Difficulty monarch.
But then! I just wanted to keep on building temples and cathedrales and wonders, but my neighbors seemed to love attacking me.
Shaka declared war against me 3 or 4 times, Justian together with Shaka, Mehmet (had to give Shaka 1 tech to stop war against him and send my army to kill Mehmets).
And now I was having war against Shaka together with Justinian and Ragnar and his vassal Isabella.
Got 3 towns of Shaka but then he became vassal to Ragnar. And next turn Ragnar and his 2 vassals declare war against.
What kind of a ****cking game is that! I'm tech leader all the time, the others seem to research only military technology trees to attack me! I'm deeply upset. Already killed so many army stacks and they keep attacking me.

 

[Iranon]

I rarely use it. I usually find myself short on hammers, and most ways of increasing those are less appealing than retaining Organised Religion.

 

[Ataxerxes]

In a One City Challenge, Pacifism is huge. You will run it whenever it becomes available and stick with it until the very end.

Usually true. With all those wonders and specialists, it's awesome. And since gold isn't a problem in an OCC, the cost of supporting units doesn't hurt.

I'm nowhere near the player Iranon is, but my experience is the same as his. I use OR a lot. I often don't even switch into FR because my diplo is usually set by then and I don't want to lose the brownie points or, if applicable, double votes in the AP.

It's always struck me that the negative points for being a heathen aren't as large as the positive points for sharing a religion. Logical with 7 religions, but with only two or three dominating for most games . . .