Does Anyone REX?

With the right religion and some easily accessible luxuries, it's not too hard to REX (especially if Askia with raging barbs since you can just buy those settlers). The problem isn't crapping out settlers so much as managing happiness since extra cities are more unhappiness than extra pop.

It's far easier to do in Standard or Quick than Epic/Marathon (but considering how fast those games are I wouldn't call it REX as much as SOP) because of delay on accessing most luxuries/happiness buildings/happiness SP.

And Scouts are more useful on defense than Warriors (especially if you go Survival line since the "March" effect is easier to get and they get a +50% defense boost not to mention being able to rapidly move from one front to another); where scouts are less useful than warriors is on offense (since they get NO bonuses from promos while attacking) unless said offense is merely barb camp/wounded unit hunting (they excel at finishing off units whittled down by city fire). I usually pump out two scouts before I ever build a warrior and those two scouts do more to keep my capital safe than the sole warrior you have at start. They can more easily fend off invaders/pull back out of range/sweep around to flanks to catch archers or finish wounded units. It isn't until Spearmen than their utility is truly outshined since the strength difference between Scout and Warrior is very slight.

all depends on your starting location.
If you have plains/desert around and your city based on plains/floods with adjacent 2 hills to city tile - Warriors are better. They get bonuses from rough/plain lands. If you preserve them, later they being upgraded into Swords, while scouts become useless and obsolete with all those promotions.
 
all depends on your starting location.
If you have plains/desert around and your city based on plains/floods with adjacent 2 hills to city tile - Warriors are better. They get bonuses from rough/plain lands. If you preserve them, later they being upgraded into Swords, while scouts become useless and obsolete with all those promotions.

Yeah, depends on starting location and gamespeed... (scouts more useful if they last longer). Also I've always disliked scout having no upgrade specifically because they are so useful to me (I play slower speeds) early on and I feel bad letting that experienced unit go (although goody upgrades makes them a bit OP - they need a dedicated line that is ALWAYS Recon, no Archer no Melee no Gun).
 
Yeah, depends on starting location and gamespeed... (scouts more useful if they last longer). Also I've always disliked scout having no upgrade specifically because they are so useful to me (I play slower speeds) early on and I feel bad letting that experienced unit go (although goody upgrades makes them a bit OP - they need a dedicated line that is ALWAYS Recon, no Archer no Melee no Gun).

exactly.... something that could be promoted to Commando unit into modern eras....
 
exactly.... something that could be promoted to Commando unit into modern eras....

Actually I stopped in Atomic (even with Paratrooper/Marine) and made Force Recon in Combined Arms. Only CS 50 so fairly weak (esp vs Mech Inf) but not intended to be a combat unit just maintain the recon role for fast terrain navigation and spotting for artillery... of course, I also added the ability for Recon units to earn the Paradrop promo after Mobile Tactics - requires Scouting 3 - but they won't replace Paratroopers since those are CS 65 and can earn Melee promotions to boost attack.
 
Actually I stopped in Atomic (even with Paratrooper/Marine) and made Force Recon in Combined Arms. Only CS 50 so fairly weak (esp vs Mech Inf) but not intended to be a combat unit just maintain the recon role for fast terrain navigation and spotting for artillery... of course, I also added the ability for Recon units to earn the Paradrop promo after Mobile Tactics - requires Scouting 3 - but they won't replace Paratroopers since those are CS 65 and can earn Melee promotions to boost attack.

i hope they will implement something like that oficially at some point. Makes alot of sense.
 
just finished my first game on immortal. went for the REX style with the Mayans and have to say I was pretty impressed. The pyramid is a perfect building for this - I built 6 cities right off the bat and had no problem at all getting first religion. Took messenger of the gods for my pantheon so each city was generating +4 science just with a road and shrine...pretty powerful. I didn't build NC till very late, but was first in science for the entire early game. Then I enhanced my religion with my first free GP from the UA, and basically used tithe/religious texts to dominate the global economy and gobble up all the CS en route to diplo victory.

getting construction early is a huge priority for REXing, for coloseums but also the Composite Bow is crucial for defending rushes.
 
just finished my first game on immortal. went for the REX style with the Mayans and have to say I was pretty impressed. The pyramid is a perfect building for this - I built 6 cities right off the bat and had no problem at all getting first religion. Took messenger of the gods for my pantheon so each city was generating +4 science just with a road and shrine...pretty powerful. I didn't build NC till very late, but was first in science for the entire early game. Then I enhanced my religion with my first free GP from the UA, and basically used tithe/religious texts to dominate the global economy and gobble up all the CS en route to diplo victory.

getting construction early is a huge priority for REXing, for coloseums but also the Composite Bow is crucial for defending rushes.


perfect example, what ive been talking about.... Mayans are incredible Rexers as well.
1st in tech in pre-medieval on immortal+
Good point on construction too
 
just finished my first game on immortal. went for the REX style with the Mayans and have to say I was pretty impressed. The pyramid is a perfect building for this - I built 6 cities right off the bat and had no problem at all getting first religion. Took messenger of the gods for my pantheon so each city was generating +4 science just with a road and shrine...pretty powerful. I didn't build NC till very late, but was first in science for the entire early game. Then I enhanced my religion with my first free GP from the UA, and basically used tithe/religious texts to dominate the global economy and gobble up all the CS en route to diplo victory.

getting construction early is a huge priority for REXing, for coloseums but also the Composite Bow is crucial for defending rushes.

Yea that's what sort of stinks with the Mayans. Theology is the core of their UA, but rushing there gives you no happiness building. I will have to start building on the luxuries. Good thing you need to go through Calendar for Theology.
 
Trying this with Carthage/Messenger of the Gods/Emperor/Archipelago for the free trade route hookups.
 
Yes, settling right on recources helps... Also there another thing that helps ALOT
IF you planing to play agressively - you could go and take Honor opener and right part - 2 SP which gives 1 happy and 2 culture per city, Take Legalism early, and you would not need to build 3 monuments,.

Tradi opener > Legalism > Liberty worker /settler > Honor opener and 2 right wing sp 15% CS and 1 happy 2 culture for Harrison then Oligarchy from Tradition.
You end with very powerful early culture output, less monument early hammers building, and with extra culture and happiness from units, which if garnisoned dont cost even money to upkeep, and cities have +50% ranged CS.
This could be very effective if you going to sprawl and maul. (hehe nice new term from other threat at Strategy forum about Empire Management :D )
 
Random question - what needs to be true to have trade routes over water as Carthage? I have four cities, all coastal, all have the free harbor, no trade routes.
 
Yea that's what sort of stinks with the Mayans. Theology is the core of their UA, but rushing there gives you no happiness building. I will have to start building on the luxuries. Good thing you need to go through Calendar for Theology.

I think it's ok to delay theology a little bit when you go wide like this. the extra science from the additional cities help make up for lost time, so researching theology won't take 20 friggin turns. i'd say in general it probably makes sense to grab the luxury techs you need, plus construction THEN beeline for theo.
 
In my latest game I set out to get the Celtic achievement for building their 33rd city but it ended up being a great test of an ICS strategy as well.

I rigged the map a bit for the purposes of the achievement doing 2 civs on a standard size map (meant to do no city states, but ended up with 4). I also disabled barbs and used a forest map to take advantage of the Celt's bonus faith, but left the difficulty on Immortal (my usual setting).

I played a few different starts because I ended up not being terribly happy with getting the free worker first (takes too long to get to the free and cheap settlers). I also played around with Stonehenge and/or Shrine early so that I could enhance faster, but at least as the Celts with forests nearby this didn't seem very helpful.

What I ended up doing was something like Monument -> Granary -> Pyramids -> Settler spam while managing to squeeze 2 scouts in there as well while waiting for research/policies to finish up. For policies, I went straight for the free settler and then started pumping them out of my capital. Granary can be a bit situational (I had 2 deer in my start radius) but even just 2 extra food can help speed the settler pump. Pyramids are a steal at 185 hammers. The 2 workers they provide are worth 140 hammers by themselves, so you are basically paying 45 hammers for a 25% worker speed boost, +1 culture, and +1 great engineer point.

One worker on road duty was pretty much able to keep up with the rate I was pumping out settlers. With proper placement you can connect 2 cities with 4 tiles of road, so that's only 2 road segments per city. The other worker (plus the once I got soon after from liberty) started improving any luxuries and then a few tiles around each city.

Early on happiness is mostly covered by focusing on building near luxuries first. Being unhappy (as long as you are above -10) isn't an issue at all since the capital isn't growing while pumping settlers and the other cities just make things worse if they grow too much before building some local happiness. Once I ran out of luxuries to settle Ceremonial Burial and +1 happy per trade route helped to keep the expansion going for a while. Eventually I had to take a short break from settler spam to build a colosseum in my capitol and pump out an extra crossbow to help defend against Japan's imminent attack (both my scouts were promoted to archers from huts and I got a chariot archer randomly from a CS). I did hit -10 unhappy for a couple turns at one point, but other than that I was able to keep up a pretty consistent settler spam from my capital the entire game so far.

City build order was almost always Shrine -> Colosseum -> Market -> Library -> University. After that I would build some food buildings if the city was having trouble filling the scientist slots and then as the Celts I pumped out the culture buildings to get Ceilidh Halls (Opera Houses) for the +3 happiness. You can basically let these cities grow as much as you want as long as you have enough local happiness to cover the population. Pagoda + Colosseum is 4 local happiness right there. If there are horses or ivory nearby you can grow to size 6. Theaters and/or UBs with happiness let you grow even larger. Each extra pop provides +1 gold from the trade route plus anything from the tiles it works, so paying for those happiness buildings isn't an issue. Science and culture building are also great to get.

I used the free great person from Liberty to rush Machu Pichu in a size 1 city I had built near a mountain. Trade route income is nearly half my my income, so this is at least a 10% total income boost. I took Messenger of the Gods for my Pantheon and then Ceremonial Burial and Pagodas when I founded my religion. When I enhanced I took Mosques and Itinerant Preachers. Mosques was a mistake--I was able to catch up and then pretty much buy Pagodas as fast as I could build Settlers in my capital (every 3-4 turns), but there's no way I'll ever have extra for a second building in each city. If I was more space limited this might have been a decent pick, but happiness from Shrines or Temples or Food from both would have been better picks in this game.

Itinerant Preachers is definitely *way* better than Religious Texts for an ICS empire (and probably in general). Around any given city you can fit 6 cities in the first ring (4 tiles away), 12 cities in the second ring (8 tiles away) and 24 cities in the third ring (12 tiles away). With Religious Texts you ca be pressured by at most 18 cities in the first 2 rings for a total of 180 pressure (144 before Printing Press). With Itinerant Preachers that third ring kicks in for a maximum of 42 cities giving 252 pressure. (As the Byzantines if you take both you could get as much as +450 pressure in a Holy city surrounded by 3 complete rings). Once you get going with this ICS approach, new cities will often convert on the very next turn.

Once you hit the Industrial Era you can pickup the Order opener for another +1 happy per city which, combined with the Liberty trade route bonus and Ceremonial Burial will completely negate the per-city unhappiness (all 3 count as global happiness). So, you can have absolutely as many cities as you can find land for and you can grow those cities as big as you can support through local happiness buildings even without any happiness from luxuries, natural wonders, etc.

Currently I'm at turn 210 and have just hit the Industrial Era (standard speed, immortal). I'm earning nearly 600 beakers per turn and I don't even have a library in my capital! I may never build a national college. I get more science from building another settler to found another city than I would get from building those things in my capital.

Liberty and Order are pretty essential to optimize the ICS strategy, but between them you have some options. I got 2 policies between finishing Liberty and hitting the Industrial Era. I sunk them into Rantionalism for the 15% science boost and +2 science per specialist. Piety would be good as well, though, for faster Shrine/Temple building and +1 faith from each (particularly as another civ that might need to focus faith buildings a bit more). Honor isn't bad either--Discipline should help defend against those AI attacks and Military Caste/Professional Army are great sources of free local happiness to let those cities grow. Even Tradition isn't terrible--if you start with it you can probably get the settlers going nearly as fast (you need an extra policy, but you get basically double culture at the start). Aristocracy could then help cover some extra happiness later, though the wonder production bonus probably won't be used much. Oligarchy can also be a good defensive policy--with cities packed so close, they can be a decent source of damage and can hit every tile in your empire. Patronage and Commerce seem like the least useful options to me since gold isn't really an issue once things get rolling, but I could see them being beneficial in certain situations.

Overall, this ended up being a very fun way to play. Science is through the roof and after founding my 33rd city on turn 210 and hitting the Industrial Era I could definitely win this game any way besides cultural. I'm looking forward to trying this out with some other civs on with more AIs (I'm thinking maybe Mayans on a Great Plains map with 4 civs total on a standard size map or 8 on a huge map).
 
Random question - what needs to be true to have trade routes over water as Carthage? I have four cities, all coastal, all have the free harbor, no trade routes.

You need to research The Wheel to enable trade routes of any kind.
 
ok. At what "year" are you no longer "rexing" and simply "expanding", then?

1000bc? 5ad? 500ad?

I argue if I've "rex'd" I have 7+ cities by 500AD. If I have not, I have 3-4 cities in 500AD.

*from settlers, not conquering.

To give you an idea - I had 7 cities with 2 Settler on the way out at year 225BC (forgot exact year) on Epic/Large. No conquest.
 
Random question - what needs to be true to have trade routes over water as Carthage? I have four cities, all coastal, all have the free harbor, no trade routes.

Make sure there's no barbarians nearby either or that your coastal path involves going over ocean tiles or tiles owned by another civ.
 
Make sure there's no barbarians nearby either or that your coastal path involves going over ocean tiles or tiles owned by another civ.

I've made sure, but I haven't got The Wheel yet.

EDIT: The Wheel did it.

Despite flubbing the early game, I quickly took control of the game. Siam is a few points up on me for score, but I'm getting most wonders now and still expanding fairly rapidly.

In addition to Messenger of the Gods, I took Mosques, Pagodas, -cost on Missionaries, and Interfaith Dialogue. I've got my faith production up high enough to buy a Missionary nearly every turn in my Great Mosque city, which then goes out for three shots of science off someone else's holy city. So far it has been remarkably effective, and I am now easily ahead on science.
 
Anyone else experimented with spamming cities quickly post G&K?
I usually try to expand faster than the AIs, which is not too difficult now, as AIs tend to be a bit more conservative with their early expansion.

I never build the national college early as it slows everything else down too much imo. I'd rather have more cities and more units than more tech in one city. With the extra happiness earlier on, you can afford a higher pop in more cities too, which diminishes the NC early on to a certain extent.

I almost always try for rapid expansion, but I usually stop at city five and conquer from then on.
 
In my latest game I set out to get the Celtic achievement for building their 33rd city but it ended up being a great test of an ICS strategy as well.

I rigged the map a bit for the purposes of the achievement doing 2 civs on a standard size map (meant to do no city states, but ended up with 4). I also disabled barbs and used a forest map to take advantage of the Celt's bonus faith, but left the difficulty on Immortal (my usual setting).
u
I played a few different starts because I ended up not being terribly happy with getting the free worker first (takes too long to get to the free and cheap settlers). I also played around with Stonehenge and/or Shrine early so that I could enhance faster, but at least as the Celts with forests nearby this didn't seem very helpful.

What I ended up doing was something like Monument -> Granary -> Pyramids -> Settler spam while managing to squeeze 2 scouts in there as well while waiting for research/policies to finish up. For policies, I went straight for the free settler and then started pumping them out of my capital. Granary can be a bit situational (I had 2 deer in my start radius) but even just 2 extra food can help speed the settler pump. Pyramids are a steal at 185 hammers. The 2 workers they provide are worth 140 hammers by themselves, so you are basically paying 45 hammers for a 25% worker speed boost, +1 culture, and +1 great engineer point.

One worker on road duty was pretty much able to keep up with the rate I was pumping out settlers. With proper placement you can connect 2 cities with 4 tiles of road, so that's only 2 road segments per city. The other worker (plus the once I got soon after from liberty) started improving any luxuries and then a few tiles around each city.

Early on happiness is mostly covered by focusing on building near luxuries first. Being unhappy (as long as you are above -10) isn't an issue at all since the capital isn't growing while pumping settlers and the other cities just make things worse if they grow too much before building some local happiness. Once I ran out of luxuries to settle Ceremonial Burial and +1 happy per trade route helped to keep the expansion going for a while. Eventually I had to take a short break from settler spam to build a colosseum in my capitol and pump out an extra crossbow to help defend against Japan's imminent attack (both my scouts were promoted to archers from huts and I got a chariot archer randomly from a CS). I did hit -10 unhappy for a couple turns at one point, but other than that I was able to keep up a pretty consistent settler spam from my capital the entire game so far.

City build order was almost always Shrine -> Colosseum -> Market -> Library -> University. After that I would build some food buildings if the city was having trouble filling the scientist slots and then as the Celts I pumped out the culture buildings to get Ceilidh Halls (Opera Houses) for the +3 happiness. You can basically let these cities grow as much as you want as long as you have enough local happiness to cover the population. Pagoda + Colosseum is 4 local happiness right there. If there are horses or ivory nearby you can grow to size 6. Theaters and/or UBs with happiness let you grow even larger. Each extra pop provides +1 gold from the trade route plus anything from the tiles it works, so paying for those happiness buildings isn't an issue. Science and culture building are also great to get.

I used the free great person from Liberty to rush Machu Pichu in a size 1 city I had built near a mountain. Trade route income is nearly half my my income, so this is at least a 10% total income boost. I took Messenger of the Gods for my Pantheon and then Ceremonial Burial and Pagodas when I founded my religion. When I enhanced I took Mosques and Itinerant Preachers. Mosques was a mistake--I was able to catch up and then pretty much buy Pagodas as fast as I could build Settlers in my capital (every 3-4 turns), but there's no way I'll ever have extra for a second building in each city. If I was more space limited this might have been a decent pick, but happiness from Shrines or Temples or Food from both would have been better picks in this game.

Itinerant Preachers is definitely *way* better than Religious Texts for an ICS empire (and probably in general). Around any given city you can fit 6 cities in the first ring (4 tiles away), 12 cities in the second ring (8 tiles away) and 24 cities in the third ring (12 tiles away). With Religious Texts you ca be pressured by at most 18 cities in the first 2 rings for a total of 180 pressure (144 before Printing Press). With Itinerant Preachers that third ring kicks in for a maximum of 42 cities giving 252 pressure. (As the Byzantines if you take both you could get as much as +450 pressure in a Holy city surrounded by 3 complete rings). Once you get going with this ICS approach, new cities will often convert on the very next turn.

Once you hit the Industrial Era you can pickup the Order opener for another +1 happy per city which, combined with the Liberty trade route bonus and Ceremonial Burial will completely negate the per-city unhappiness (all 3 count as global happiness). So, you can have absolutely as many cities as you can find land for and you can grow those cities as big as you can support through local happiness buildings even without any happiness from luxuries, natural wonders, etc.

Currently I'm at turn 210 and have just hit the Industrial Era (standard speed, immortal). I'm earning nearly 600 beakers per turn and I don't even have a library in my capital! I may never build a national college. I get more science from building another settler to found another city than I would get from building those things in my capital.

Liberty and Order are pretty essential to optimize the ICS strategy, but between them you have some options. I got 2 policies between finishing Liberty and hitting the Industrial Era. I sunk them into Rantionalism for the 15% science boost and +2 science per specialist. Piety would be good as well, though, for faster Shrine/Temple building and +1 faith from each (particularly as another civ that might need to focus faith buildings a bit more). Honor isn't bad either--Discipline should help defend against those AI attacks and Military Caste/Professional Army are great sources of free local happiness to let those cities grow. Even Tradition isn't terrible--if you start with it you can probably get the settlers going nearly as fast (you need an extra policy, but you get basically double culture at the start). Aristocracy could then help cover some extra happiness later, though the wonder production bonus probably won't be used much. Oligarchy can also be a good defensive policy--with cities packed so close, they can be a decent source of damage and can hit every tile in your empire. Patronage and Commerce seem like the least useful options to me since gold isn't really an issue once things get rolling, but I could see them being beneficial in certain situations.

Overall, this ended up being a very fun way to play. Science is through the roof and after founding my 33rd city on turn 210 and hitting the Industrial Era I could definitely win this game any way besides cultural. I'm looking forward to trying this out with some other civs on with more AIs (I'm thinking maybe Mayans on a Great Plains map with 4 civs total on a standard size map or 8 on a huge map).

Awesome report, thank you. Thats what ive been talking about. I mentioned Byzantium as most ICS civ urging for texts and preachers combination. Thabk you for doing more detailed report :-)
 
Back
Top Bottom