Does doing better than the AI equal inevitable war?

CivAddict2013

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I want to know what you guys think. Is doing better than the AI in some way shape or form just asking for war? Based on my current game I think so. I played as Washington and was doing extremely well. All of a sudden Germany and Pocatello just DoW me out of nowhere.

I've been friends with them the whole game, liberated a city state, brought a Civ back to life and I'm getting DoW'd. I think it definitely is true that if you're doing better than the AI, you're going to get DoW'd. I may be wrong, but in my experience, this is the case.

I understand I had a different ideology. Does having a different ideology result in war?

The AI will be friends with you the whole game, then all gang up on you, if you're doing better than them.

So would you guys agree, does doing better than the AI result in an inevitable DoW?
 
ask yourself what you would do against a runaway. the AI is designed to strive for a win.
 
They are very likely to attack you if you are ahead technologically and economically but far behind militarily, however if you play sensibly you should always have enough military to scare them off attacking you unless they are just ridiculously expansive military AI's like the Zulu.
 
They are very likely to attack you if you are ahead technologically and economically but far behind militarily, however if you play sensibly you should always have enough military to scare them off attacking you unless they are just ridiculously expansive military AI's like the Zulu.
Well I did have a decent military and was able to fight them off. But it's just something I've noticed I guess. I'll be friends with everyone, then all the AI's will just jump me.

I've taken a few cities, but Germany has taken out entire civilizations and nobody declares war on him. Instead they choose to DoW me, the liberator. Like I said, I even liberated a CS and brought a Civ back to life.

Therefore I'm under the impression that the AI gangs up on you for no other reason than that you are doing better than them.

It could be bad diplomacy; but this has happened to me far to many times to be a coincidence.
 
Well I did have a decent military and was able to fight them off. But it's just something I've noticed I guess. I'll be friends with everyone, then all the AI's will just jump me.

I've taken a few cities, but Germany has taken out entire civilizations and nobody declares war on him. Instead they choose to DoW me, the liberator. Like I said, I even liberated a CS and brought a Civ back to life.

Therefore I'm under the impression that the AI gangs up on you for no other reason than that you are doing better than them.

It could be bad diplomacy; but this has happened to me far to many times to be a coincidence.

It's quite likely that most of the other civilizations do hate germany with a passion, but since you're not germany you can't tell very well. The other civs however are probably either too scared of his military to attack him or have actually attacked him before and taking their cities is part of why Germany got so huge in the first place ;)
 
In G&K: Being on the same planet as the AI meant war (after the G&K fall patch)

For BNW: AI doesn't care who has a better economy. What it instead cares about is who has a weaker army (as measured by flawed calculation the AI uses that undervalues ranged units and in late game under values the use of the gold reserve to modernize troops)
In addition, there are modifiers that will make an AI mad at you. But if you dominate them in military strength, they won't DOW you but will simply denouce you.
 
Again, if you saw someone was about to win, wouldn't you try to stop him?
Well in my case, victory wasn't even really inevitable. But I did have the most gold, the most population and the most land.

Maybe it's because the AI gets jealous when you have more land? I don't know. I did notice that when I played a small 3 city Science Victory, I never got DoW'd.
 
Having more land means your borders will be rubbing up against others' borders more as well (thereby leading to conflict), so I guess in that sense, having a smaller empire may indirectly mean less conflict and less war.
 
The AI doesn't attack you out of spite just for having a higher score, but it will attack you if it is Germany. AIs will also bribe each other to attack.
 
I guess a lot of armies could be smashed by a join effort between civs, but the AI is HORRIBLY bad at cooperating. They would rather bicker among them selves as they get steam rolled 1 by 1.

And then they team up with me, they do BUGGER ALLLLLLL! I teamed up with India to fight Spain, and the Indian army was larger than Spain's (mine was bigger still :D). But because I was attacking, India just sat on the side, hogging all the cakes. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen, and then the AI will whinge at you for being a warmonger! :mad:

On a funny side note, one time about 5 AI's ganged up on Shaka after I booted off his main island , leaving him with one city. Over 50 turns, the five civs combined sent: 3 Caravels...which all got smashed rather quickly :p Well, naval combat still needs some tweakin' :lol:
 
I want to know what you guys think. Is doing better than the AI in some way shape or form just asking for war? Based on my current game I think so. I played as Washington and was doing extremely well. All of a sudden Germany and Pocatello just DoW me out of nowhere.

As far as I could explore, there is no code specifically checking for other players levels of success (winning the game). There is code that checks something they called Victory Dispute Levels, which assigns a considerable penalty to opinion if the AI "guesses" that some player is going for the SAME victory, but that's about it. If you ask me, there SHOULD be a block of code checking for a general level of victory, and that would be a "to do" for the Better AI project... then again, they might have decided to leave such code out based on the horrible experience of civ1 where such type of coding ensured a World gang against the human in the end game if he was winning. This is a very delicate issue, that if included can break the balance of the game to a point of no return: not everyone, and I could even dare to say almost no one, will like to be ganged up by other players "because he is winning"... on the other hand, that is exactly what happens in multiplayer.

Bottom line, it boils down to the core question presented by Soren in his lecture at Stanford (?): do we want a good AI or a Fun AI? (or the best possible mix of both)

I've been friends with them the whole game, liberated a city state, brought a Civ back to life and I'm getting DoW'd. I think it definitely is true that if you're doing better than the AI, you're going to get DoW'd. I may be wrong, but in my experience, this is the case.

Again, no code for checking general level of victory.

I understand I had a different ideology. Does having a different ideology result in war?

There is specific code that checks if a player (AI or human) has a different or similar ideology, and assigns a big penalty/bonus to opinion weights accordingly. Ideologies have a considerable influence in stances in the mid to late game as coded.

The AI will be friends with you the whole game, then all gang up on you, if you're doing better than them.

So would you guys agree, does doing better than the AI result in an inevitable DoW?

No, not according to the code. Many other factors influence the approach and opinion of each civ towards each of the other civs (human or AI, no distinction), but not how well the player is doing in general. Given the factors that are part of the code and calculations, you could say that indirectly, the better you are doing, the more factors you will "trigger" when the AI calculates its stance every single turn and changes the approach accordingly. In a way, your level of success is then indirectly included in such calculations, but not directly. That is why, if you play to "over compensate" what you know/feel are the main factors against you, you will not see a gang up against you: one big and well known example, carrying a big stick (and even better, if said stick is radioactive :D), as military threat levels have a big influence in AI opinion and stances.

On the other hand, there is code that makes the AI check if a player has become a good target due to being at war with other civs (the more the better) and if such player is loosing that war; if the multiple checks give TRUE, then the AI will consider joining the onslaught... you can see that happening almost every game, and not necessarily to the human (in fact, the better the human plays, the less likely he is to see this effect, as we can assume such player is using the diplo/force counters to its max to prevent it from happening)...

Hope this answers your questions.
 
I want to know what you guys think. Is doing better than the AI in some way shape or form just asking for war? Based on my current game I think so. I played as Washington and was doing extremely well. All of a sudden Germany and Pocatello just DoW me out of nowhere.

I've been friends with them the whole game, liberated a city state, brought a Civ back to life and I'm getting DoW'd. I think it definitely is true that if you're doing better than the AI, you're going to get DoW'd. I may be wrong, but in my experience, this is the case.

I understand I had a different ideology. Does having a different ideology result in war?

The AI will be friends with you the whole game, then all gang up on you, if you're doing better than them.

So would you guys agree, does doing better than the AI result in an inevitable DoW?

In this case, having a differing ideology is probably the major factor - yes, that almost inevitably results in war unless you put in a lot of effort diplomatically to avoid it. AIs will gang up with those of their own ideology against civs with a different one, and it makes little difference whether the other civ is a runaway - I've had AI civs pound on Venice when Venice was the weakest civ but happened to have an unpopular ideology, but not go for me while I have a tech lead.

The AI actually has a very limited ability to detect whether a player is ahead, and as far as I can tell it seems to go by score - you can have a tech and military lead but be lower-scoring than a civ with more cities and Wonders, and the AI won't detect that you're in the lead.
 
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