Does Great wall & Imperialistic trait give you 200% GG inside cultural borders?

[D Wolf]

I agree it's not a good trait lategame though. Neither is Industrious, which is a med-top tier trait... I consider Imp a mediocre trait... It's a bit of a niche trait really.

Thing is, having imperialistic as a trait kind of forces you to go to war early to make the most out of your faster GG generation. The quick settler production helps with this as well (the saved turns and hammers from forest chopping can go to military units). In my opinion imperialistic is probably one of the better traits for people who like to wage war very early in the game. Its advantages admittedly become negligible mid-game onwards, but as all good players know, a solid early game makes up for many things.

 

[Blaarg]

So it looks like Imperialistic gives you roughly 50% more Great Generals give or take a GG.

 

[JKWSN]

If you grab Leadership (and who wouldn't) you also make x2 points per successful attack, so by attaching more of your early Generals you will also speed up the rate of generation.

When playing as a Caesar, I typically put my first two Generals on Praetorians, pop the third on a horse archer (to be a medic), and pop the rest in a city until I get close to tanks.

 

[kniteowl]

If you grab Leadership (and who wouldn't) you also make x2 points per successful attack, so by attaching more of your early Generals you will also speed up the rate of generation.

When playing as a Caesar, I typically put my first two Generals on Praetorians, pop the third on a horse archer (to be a medic), and pop the rest in a city until I get close to tanks.

I've already tested this out on world builder with an Imp Civ, Leadership doesn't further double you GG point accumulation... or it does it double the amount of XP gain for that particular unit.

I reckon Imp needs buff... maybe -50% WW and -50% unit upgrade cost as it meshes well with the constant warring required to produce more GGs.

 

[JKWSN]

I've already tested this out on world builder with an Imp Civ, Leadership doesn't further double you GG point accumulation... or it does it double the amount of XP gain for that particular unit.

They must have changed that in a patch while I wasn't looking

I reckon Imp needs buff... maybe -50% WW and -50% unit upgrade cost as it meshes well with the constant warring required to produce more GGs.

Those do sound good - what about a lower penalty for over-seas colonies? And how would you go about putting that in effect for a mod?

 

[kniteowl]

Those do sound good - what about a lower penalty for over-seas colonies? And how would you go about putting that in effect for a mod?

lol no idea I don't know how to mod the SDK, I think the lower maintenance fits better with the Organised Trait besides I think the makers added in colony maintenance for a reason, it was probably so we'd grant Colonies independence and have friendly vassals and less micro-managing cities.

 

[jray]

I've already tested this out on world builder with an Imp Civ, Leadership doesn't further double you GG point accumulation... or it does it double the amount of XP gain for that particular unit.

That is my memory as well, that Leadership promotion and Imperialistic trait do not stack in their GG point accumulation. I also remember Great Wall + Imperialistic giving only +200% or triple GG points, not 4x. I've been on sabbatical from Civ gaming for a while though, so don't take my word for it.

 

[axident]

Is this true!?!? That seems like a bug to me..

Also- Perhaps i don't have enough coffee, but I can't figure out the above post... Can you clarify? (re: Welnic)

I asked this same q a long time ago, and it's apparently +200% not +300% to GG generation. In other words, it doesn't multiply, just like pretty much all bonuses in the Civ 4 game.

 

[gettingfat]

The imp + great wall + Statue of Zeus strategy actually works quite well under the right conditions. Just make sure the border is not very long, clear out the forests too close to your border cities, build enough roads and your target is not Toku or Bourdica (their units too tough to kill). You also get the benefit of getting a tech or so when you sue for peace after you've killed enough of your enemy's unit.

 

[Tavenier]

If I'm not mistaken, Imperialistic is widely considered one of the lower tier traits.

50 Cent sells millions of albums. Is he considered a good musician?

 

[Shades]

I asked this same q a long time ago, and it's apparently +200% not +300% to GG generation. In other words, it doesn't multiply, just like pretty much all bonuses in the Civ 4 game.

Well, I just went into a game I was playing where I have an Imperialist Leader and the Great Wall. I used worldbuilder to add a couple of units in my territory to test. Each unit I killed gave me 4 Great General points. When I attack into the enemy's territory, I get 2 Great General points. I am running BTS without the latest patch.

 

[jray]

Well, I just went into a game I was playing where I have an Imperialist Leader and the Great Wall. I used worldbuilder to add a couple of units in my territory to test. Each unit I killed gave me 4 Great General points. When I attack into the enemy's territory, I get 2 Great General points. I am running BTS without the latest patch.

Wow, must be a bug introduced in 3.13 then. If you could report it in the bug forum, then maybe Bhruic or someone could look into it. Or are you using a mod that might be responsible?

 

[Blaarg]

50 Cent sells millions of albums. Is he considered a good musician?

Oh, I'm sorry, you consider 50% more GGs better than powerhouse traits like Financial? You must be correct, and most of the rest of people play this game are wrong.

 

[onedreamer]

If I'm not mistaken, Imperialistic is widely considered one of the lower tier traits.

Imperialistic is my favourite trait. On pangaea maps it's very powerful. I remember when WoW was released and players didn't know each and every secret as they do now, I played a Rogue and was running around with dual daggers while all other rogues had dual swords. Each and every rogue player would dismiss me when I tried to convince them that daggers were more suitable. Now, I haven't played WoW since when Civ4 has been released, but I've heard from my friends that you can't see any rogue wielding any sword now that the game is better known. All this story should teach you that if the sheeps herd is going in one direction, not necessarily it is the best direction.

 

[Blaarg]

Imperialistic is my favourite trait. On pangaea maps it's very powerful. I remember when WoW was released and players didn't know each and every secret as they do now, I played a Rogue and was running around with dual daggers while all other rogues had dual swords. Each and every rogue player would dismiss me when I tried to convince them that daggers were more suitable. Now, I haven't played WoW since when Civ4 has been released, but I've heard from my friends that you can't see any rogue wielding any sword now that the game is better known. All this story should teach you that if the sheeps herd is going in one direction, not necessarily it is the best direction.

Huh? They change wow every couple months with patches, new item drops, different talents, game mechicanics changes. The game came out nearly 3 years ago, and has had an expansion and countless patches. The game you played is nothing like it is now. Rogues might have all used swords back then because it was the way to go, and they might have changed because daggers actually got better. I never played a rogue, so I don't know, but your story means little.

All that aside, the biggest difference between civ and wow, is that this isn't an MMO. You don't see other players running past you all the time, so it's going to be difficult to emulate them. People generally arrive at thier opinions on which traits are the best/worst through thier own experiences, not by being led by sheep.

 

[Shades]

Wow, must be a bug introduced in 3.13 then. If you could report it in the bug forum, then maybe Bhruic or someone could look into it. Or are you using a mod that might be responsible?

I am not using a mod. Plus, it is BTS unpatched. So, 3.13 hasn't had any effect on my play. Frankly, I always remember it being 4 Great General points when using both Great Wall and Imperialistic. I merely tested it to be sure I wasn't mistaken.

 

[azzaman333]

Wow, must be a bug introduced in 3.13 then. If you could report it in the bug forum, then maybe Bhruic or someone could look into it. Or are you using a mod that might be responsible?

It has always given 4x GG points IIRC. So I doubt it's a bug. (plus IMP needs any sort of boost it cant get)

 

[jray]

I am not using a mod. Plus, it is BTS unpatched. So, 3.13 hasn't had any effect on my play. Frankly, I always remember it being 4 Great General points when using both Great Wall and Imperialistic. I merely tested it to be sure I wasn't mistaken.

It has always given 4x GG points IIRC. So I doubt it's a bug. (plus IMP needs any sort of boost it cant get)

Cool, I'll have to give it another try then. Thanks for the info.

 

[L4zXX0r]

50 Cent sells millions of albums. Is he considered a good musician?

While I get the comparison, I don't think it actually works in this situation. A game, especially one that is based on math, like Civ is, can be calculated out and number crunched into strategies that work better than others. Where as, 50 Cent sells albums, because some people like him, and other people buy it because they were sold a product. Imperialism isn't really a product to be sold. So where as some people just like the imperialism trait, having fast settler production and better chances of getting a great general are not that powerful. Though I would say Great Generals and the charasmatic trait have potential, but it's not game breaking. The fact that imperialism is considered a second tier or third tier trait, is only because there are better traits that probably stack the odds in your favor better than others.

However, to answer the more important question...

No, 50 Cent sucks.

 

[azzaman333]

While I get the comparison, I don't think it actually works in this situation. A game, especially one that is based on math, like Civ is, can be calculated out and number crunched into strategies that work better than others. Where as, 50 Cent sells albums, because some people like him, and other people buy it because they were sold a product. Imperialism isn't really a product to be sold. So where as some people just like the imperialism trait, having fast settler production and better chances of getting a great general are not that powerful. Though I would say Great Generals and the charasmatic trait have potential, but it's not game breaking. The fact that imperialism is considered a second tier or third tier trait, is only because there are better traits that probably stack the odds in your favor better than others.

However, to answer the more important question...

No, 50 Cent sucks.

Imperialism is good is (ab)used correctly.