Does Kongo need a buff?

[Archon_Wing]

With writing nerfed, it is now hard to do a pure book victory. Relics are also pretty nice but Kongo doesn't have an easy time getting those either. So culture victory now depends on faith for Rock Bands but Goddess of the Harvest is no longer there, Earth Goddess really doesn't work for Kongo, and half the pantheons don't work for them either. Their UU now requires iron and wasn't that much better than generic swordsmen to begin with. And now with Admirals being comparable to Merchants, even their merchant bonus isn't that spectacular. Finally, their UB is just a faster way for the enemy to recruit rebels.

All and all, it seems like every major change in GS has had a negative impact on Kongo.

 

[criZp]

Trash the partisan spy mission for starters.

 

[Lupine]

AI never seems to have problems with Congo. If they are in my game they are usually the big dog.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I don't think any Civ need a buff/nerf.

Yes they vary in strength, Macedon/Aztecs and Kongo/Canada are definitely in different levels. However they're designed to be that. Players don't need Civs that are all the same in strength, and dealing with Civs that vary in strength represents a player's skill. (especially in MP)

 

[bbbt]

Lots of UBs for recruit partisans and lots of spare Apostles - some of whom will end up with heathen conversion - sounds like a great combo to me

 

[Victoria]

All and all, it seems like every major change in GS

No buff from me. Played them the other day, won with books, art and ski slopes at about T130.
Just push 7 cities and then concentrate. Only real benefits they have that really help are a 5 slot palace and 1.5 x generation but it is enough if you concentrate.
They have some cute tricks and abilities and you can always try the relic route but I find the art route works just fine.

 

[Archon_Wing]

No buff from me. Played them the other day, won with books, art and ski slopes at about T130.
Just push 7 cities and then concentrate. Only real benefits they have that really help are a 5 slot palace and 1.5 x generation but it is enough if you concentrate.
They have some cute tricks and abilities and you can always try the relic route but I find the art route works just fine.

I never remember you can just buy relics to eat. Is it that costly?

 

[kb27787]

I never remember you can just buy relics to eat. Is it that costly?

There is such a wonder called mt St Michel you know...
It is pretty much a core wonder for Kongo... Which I think is the only civ that has one absolutely required wonder to win.

I would appreciate a small buff that makes shrine and temple religious beliefs apply to theatre square buildings instead (feed the world, warrior monks... These are always picked but turn out useless for Kongo)

Reverting the GPP bonus to double would be welcome, but the devs apparently thought that was OP. Apparently they haven't bought into the notion that Kongo is a bottom-tier civ according to these forums.

Recruit partisans means you get free units as long as you have a heathen converter nearby. It's not that big of an issue in my games. More often they will almost always go siphon funds instead

 

[MarigoldRan]

Kandy.

 

[Basajaun]

I think they are kinda good honestly. Not having to spend any resources in religion opens up the possibilities a lot, and once you bring a couple of relics home, he has very very decent cities. Although you are a bit dependent on Ai spreading religion to you.
Of the last 25 civ games, Ive done one with Kongo, and its the only game where AI didnt throw a single missionary or apostle my way. When I am usually trying to keep religious units out of my lands day and night.

 

[Isengardtom]

I think they are decent. Their start bias almost always gives me a strong start with good opening tiles which isn’t the case with some other civs. (I’m looking at you Cree). Good UU too I think

 

[GrumboMumbo]

On the subject of books, do people think they nerfed great works of writing too hard? Do people think cutting the Culture/Tourism in half was a good change, I'm just curious...

 

[Sostratus]

I think they are decent. Their start bias almost always gives me a strong start with good opening tiles which isn’t the case with some other civs. (I’m looking at you Cree). Good UU too I think

Since their bias is forest+jungle, they have a very strong propensity to be in grassland or jungle; this means they’ll have a lot of 3 and 4 (hills+woods) yield tiles right away. And they have lots of things to chop if they want to.

With the change to lumber mills it’s not far from the extreme usefulness of a hills bias these days.

 

[KayAU]

I basically agree with @Lily_Lancer that there is no need to try and balance all civs to the same strength. That said, I do think it might be a good idea to replace or modify abilities which don't have any real utility, or which are a direct negative. That is not limited to uniques, it also goes for, policies, pantheons, governor promotions and so on. I suppose the most suspect parts of Kongo in that regard, is their leader ability, which is a malus, and the M'banza, which is a replacement for a district people tend to avoid. I personally still build it as Kongo, though, as I just love accumulating massive passive yields. I agree with @criZp that getting rid of (or at least significantly changing) the partisan spy mission would be a good idea at this point.

 

[schondette]

Heck no. They ruin every game they are played in.Good luck getting any GP on a map with a unchecked Kongo.

 

[UWHabs]

Kongo is also at least a unique civ to play, so even if they aren't top tier, they're at least fun for a change. Although wouldn't mind them getting something like +1 faith per jungle or have Mbanza give faith instead of gold, or just some sort of way to generate faith without the holy sites.

 

[Leucarum]

Ironically they are one of the civs the AI plays better than average. I think people have suggested it might be because they don't push religion.

I enjoy them, even though they are really just defined by the Nkisi ability.

 

[Archon_Wing]

On the subject of books, do people think they nerfed great works of writing too hard? Do people think cutting the Culture/Tourism in half was a good change, I'm just curious...

It makes art and music more relevant. It also means Russia is much less annoying. It is pretty good since culture was too easy to rush.

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm playing Kongo right now. Game is going fairly well. Actually better than my Gorgo game. I tried for culture win with Gorgo too, but I pivoted from conquering to culture too late I suppose. I wasn't gaining ground, so had to win via diplomatic victory. With Kongo I have been peaceful all game, but even with that, cultural victory seems to be much more forthcoming. The map has been generous which I can't complain about either. They aren't my favorite civ, but a buff isn't going to cause them to be in my top 10. It's just the vision of the Civ I'm not a big fan of.

I don't play these guys often (but I'm still trying to fill up my Hall of Fame- 10 more to go), correct me if I'm wrong. But is there no way to create more space for relics with Kongo? I can get 5 in my capital and 2 in St. Michel, but that seems to be all the relics I can get.

 

[Victoria]

no way to create more space for relics with Kongo?

just change to artefacts or art. Is 7 not enough? Spread your wings a little.